CEP 19: With Guest Paul Benger - How To Have A Great Vision Sunday
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Episode: 19 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us for this episode as we chat with Paul Benger on the nuts and bolts of why your church should run a yearly vision day. This episode is packed with many practical ideas you can instantly implement in your church or ministry.
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FULL TRANSCRIPT
PLEASE NOTE THIS CONVERTED BY Ai so may not be perfect😀
David Mckeown 0:00
Welcome to the church explained podcast a conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church. Today we've got a very special guest we have the Lead Pastor Paul Benger from IKON Church, which is the Church we belong to. And now we're going to talk around this idea of how to have a great vision Sunday. This is a two part podcast. The following will will be how to take up a grid vision offering but today we're going to look at some of the nuts and bolts on what it means to have a grid vision Sunday.
David Mckeown 0:36
I am Dave. And I'm Nathan. We're the hosts of the Church podcast and today we're really excited to have Paul Benger back on the show again, Paul has been living the wine. Welcome back. Paul. Paul is the lead Pastor of IKON Church, multi site Church, which were part of here. So we're happy for that really today, aren't we? Yeah,
Nathan Benger 0:56
we'll get our five pound later. We'll
David Mckeown 0:58
get our money later. Yeah. But also polled. You're the leader of the drone level network, which is around at churches in the UK, and also expanding into Europe. So fantastic. And I've done a great job there as well with a global network. Thank you. So welcome to the show.
Nathan Benger 1:14
Yeah. Why don't you Paul, tell us something about yourself since the last time you were on the podcast?
Paul Benger 1:20
Well, since the last time I was on the podcast, Jeannie and I've got a couple of new grandchildren. Wow. And seen as we're recording this a little while before Christmas, we are starting to think that Christmas will be more expensive.
David Mckeown 1:36
Okay. Well, that's gonna cost you a lot of money this year. Yes. Hey, so the, in this show, we're gonna talk about vision Sundays and how to have a great vision Sunday. So we want to talk around that. And maybe some of that language will be new for some of the listeners today. What is the vision Sunday? What does it mean? We really want this to be almost like a nuts and bolts conversation on this podcast on the following one, just talking around vision, vision Sunday's and vision offerings, ads outside sounds great. Yeah. Right. So we've got an equation for Yeah, it's got the forest. Well,
Nathan Benger 2:11
we can discuss around this. But each year at IKON Church, we have a vision Sunday. And it's kind of like, the first question is why? Why do we have vision Sunday? And what
David Mckeown 2:21
is it I suppose yeah.
Paul Benger 2:23
So we just set a Sunday, normally February or March for us, where we just get a sense, bring a sense to the whole Church of where we're headed, where we go in. And, you know, we are a Church with vision. We're our Church that wants to keep progressing and moving forward. And so we we feel to have a Sunday where we highlight the, you know, the things we want to achieve, I guess in the year ahead, or where we want to go what we feel God is saying, you know, without getting too spiritual about that, but what are we focused on in this moment? Yeah. Because Church, I mean, Church is very broad, isn't it? And there's lots of stuff we do in Church. But I think it's great to be able to say with, we feel we should focus on this in this moment, you know, this year ahead. So this is our vision, these are the things we're believing God for in this moment in this season.
Nathan Benger 3:17
Yeah. And it helps us, like, clarify the when. And here's what we're going to, you know, in my short time in Church life, which is 35 years, and that's how old I am. And I like to say to young people, I've been in more Church services than you've ever been in all together in a youth meeting. But that like that can be loads of different messages that come about loads of different words from God, but a vision, some there helps us as a Church to focus and clarify, this is where we're going. And this is our focus. This is what we're wanting to achieve. This is what we're believing God for. And it helps the Church unite around that as well.
Paul Benger 3:59
Yeah, I think one thing we don't always appreciate is that vision leaks. And that we think, because we said this is our vision as a Church five years ago, we think everybody's remembered it, or we said it last year, everybody's remembered it. So it's an opportunity, like you say, to clarify, the win to clarify, you know, some of those big things that we're believing for, but also then to drill down to in this moment. Well, you know, we're focused, we're focused here. Yeah,
David Mckeown 4:27
great answer that policy, just thinking of the idea of a vision someday, and also like the overall vision of a Church. Is that different for people? You know, as people may be thinking, Are you setting a brand new vision every year? What's happening there each time we come to that?
Paul Benger 4:43
Well, I hope nobody's thinking of setting a brand new. Every year you know, if I take IKON Church as an example, we say that our vision and mission are these things. Our vision is human flourishing. We want people to do well Well, in life, that is always going to be our vision, we, you know, we want people to flourish in life. And the way we achieve that is through our mission, which is building relevant contemporary churches. We think that the only thing Jesus is building as his Church, the only thing Yeah, you're not building anything else, but his Church. And, and so we want to join him in that we want to reach people with a message of Jesus, see people come to faith, reach them with a message of God's kingdom, and then empower them to lead an influence in every sphere of life. So that's the vision kind of that encompasses the vision that will never change. That is the vision. But the yearly vision Sunday is what inside of that, what are the details inside of that, that we're really tapping into in this moment?
David Mckeown 5:50
Yeah, absolutely. That sounds without really that sad, sort of going back to your point during clarifying the wind is clarifying where we're going. So do you think by doing that, then does it prevent churches from, you know, having sort of the vision, you know, in the nursery vision, or language?
Paul Benger 6:10
Helps you clarify, it helps you restate? Yeah. And also, you know, stare that commitment and conviction again, this is our vision. It's a good vision. Yeah. And helps you do that. And also it keeps people potentially, and keeps people and the Church in the same place. You know, I really believe you know, in the Bible talks about unity. It talks about God's blessing being in a place of unity, Psalm 133, isn't it? And one of the challenges and problems I think I see in many churches, not I've, in my own Church, I've seen it is when suddenly we've got 10 visions. Yeah, and not one vision. And, and so for us, everything we do has to lead towards building, building the Church, everything we do, has to lead towards reaching people, everything we do has to lead towards empowering people, which ultimately leads to people flourishing.
David Mckeown 7:03
Yeah. And I guess just thinking of that vision Sunday, every year in the rhythm of the Church. It sort of helps to include new people as they come through to join in that vision, doesn't it sort. It's around lots of people rather than just a few.
Paul Benger 7:18
Yeah, yeah. It just allows that to, to broaden out. And as you say, new people, new people love it that you know, and they just love the sense that you get that weekend that Sunday to talk about. This is the vision of the Church broad. But this is the vision of the moment that we're here. Yeah,
Nathan Benger 7:38
I think, you know, us, you said a few things like that, you know, clarity, brings clarity, you know, unity, I think that they're some of the key things for leaders to think about. This is why we do it creates clarity and unity. But I guess for many Church leaders who have vision, you have a lot that you want to achieve. And, and sometimes that, you know, you could you could be easily could, you know, you could want to share every year. So how should leaders communicate vision on a vision Sunday?
Paul Benger 8:16
Yeah, well, I mean, I've got a few things here. And these are from Andy Stanley. So I've just adopted them, because I think he's the clearest on some of this stuff. And so he said, first of all, Stated simply, it's why for us, we over the years have just kept drilling down our vision statement to two words, human flourishing. Yeah. Stated simply, you know, we want people to flourish in every area of life clastic, convincingly. And I think what that means for me is I've got to have a conviction about, yeah, this is what God has called us to do. A this is a good thing where we're convinced about this. Yeah, you know, and you know, you should serve this vision issue. You know, you should give to this because it's a God vision. It's not, it's not something I've made up. So you cast it with confidence and conviction, convincingly repeat it regularly. And you know, we have a vision Sunday, but don't let that be the only time that you talk about your business. You've got to keep all the time. As we're going to talk about in the next podcast, we don't just have vision Sunday, but we have a vision offering. But throughout the year you will hear this is our vision. This is you know, this is our mission as a Church, you you will hear people who come to IKON Church I, I would imagine, you don't have to be too long before you know, this is the vision of this Church. Celebrate it systematically. So you know, Vision Sunday is this Sunday to celebrate our vision. Yeah, we get to tell stories about here's what the visions done. Vision offering Sunday is another system where we get to celebrate, you know, we've just done vision offering Sunday here. And we told I told in the message, maybe six stories that are those stories only happen because we've got a vision. Yeah. So that's a celebrate Yeah, celebration. And in a couple of weeks, we will announce how much has been given in the vision offering, that will be a celebration, we've done party poppers and different things in the past, we will have some stuff on the screen and some music, but there it will be a moment of celebration, whatever was given will be thanking God. And so we're celebrating again, vision, and not not just what's been given. So that stated simply cast it convincingly repeated, regularly celebrated systematically. And then finally embrace it personally, yeah, I lead you to be convinced you've you've got to be heart and soul individually, you've got to be, you've got to know, this is what this is what I really believe God wants, and therefore I embrace it, my family embraces it as much as we're able, personally.
Nathan Benger 11:05
And I guess going back to like, what my thinking of as many leaders, you have so much vision to do those five things, you can't share everything, you know, because otherwise, it won't be simple. Yeah. You know, Which part are you trying to focus on? Yeah, which part we're gonna repeat? Which part we're gonna, you know, so it's actually, you know, take taking that vision and going, okay, where does God want us to focus this year? Where is the focus for that, and that we're able to, to do that, in communicating the vision.
Paul Benger 11:39
And just the live example is obviously we were, we've just done vision offering, which is one of our vision, weekends, and coming out of the pandemic. And all and without going into all that detail, are stating it simply is, you know, Vision offering is about as moving, keeping the vision moving forward. So our simple statement has been, we want to keep moving forward. Yeah. So keep going forward. And our churches picked up on that they they get that sense, this, that we want to progress. We want to keep moving forward. We want to grow, grow strength, you know, if we've lost momentum, we want to gather momentum again, we just want to keep moving forward. Yeah. And so we've stated that, you know, quite simply, and then within that, there are specifics that we're working on. Yeah.
David Mckeown 12:29
And I suppose you're thinking of that keeping the momentum, keeping it moving forward. That's what those Sundays allow us to do, isn't it? We've got them built into the rhythm of the Church. Therefore, we know, it's going to help us create that momentum. Yeah. And helps, I suppose even helps us as leaders and helps the Church helps us to focus on something rather than focus on now. Because a lot of churches, they will have a vision or a vision statement, and stay on the wall somewhere. But actually, it's never worked in the rhythm of the Church. Yeah. And I think just to have that, I think, the battle framework, those five things are brilliant. Yeah. And only Church or leader could use those couldn't really,
Nathan Benger 13:07
and I guess there'll be in the show notes.
David Mckeown 13:11
And we'll make it easy for people to fill. So. So let's now say we're talking about vision. There's some challenges sometimes in sharing vision, isn't there? Yeah. What would you say are the top challenges that you've encountered? Or even Church leaders and kinda Yeah, when it comes to sharing vision?
Paul Benger 13:28
It's a great question. And I would say that some Church leaders I've spoken to, don't do a vision Sunday, because of the challenges are they tried it. And then in year two or year three, they hit some challenges and felt we've got to draw back. But the ones that stick out to me is the fact and mismatch the personal is that visit your vision doesn't change. Your big vision is the SAT human flourishing, human flourishing, you're building the bit want to build the Church, you're reaching people with them. That's, and so you can get bored with the sense of I'm saying the same thing again. But But here's one thing, we when we get bored, that people are just starting to get interested, as
Nathan Benger 14:13
well, marketing. Yeah, if we take marketing, it takes you, you've got to see a piece of marketing 10 times. Yeah, before you actually recognise it in the future. Yeah. So when, you know, like as leaders will be sharing the vision in multiple settings, but a person might only be in one of those settings.
Paul Benger 14:35
And I hope this helps. Some leaders may be listening or anybody really that when you feel I'm saying the same thing again, when you feel that little, you know, whatever depressed feeling about how I'm saying the same thing again, that's good. Because what you're saying the same thing again, nobody in your congregation is thinking that Yeah, nobody in your congregation is thinking I've heard this all before. You know, they're actually it's an opportunity for them to be refired. Yeah. Because that so boredom, I think can be.
David Mckeown 15:08
And I guess just picking up on that, that momentum we've talked about, yeah, we're always thinking about new people coming in. For those people, like a leader may have said vision so many times, but that new person never heard of it. So first weekend Church. So I think you're right on that. Even if you feel bored, you say it. Sad again. And again. And again. Yeah, he did. Because that's the thing that helps it really stick long term, isn't it?
Paul Benger 15:31
Yeah. And do it with conviction as well, you know, you know, get past that and do. The second thing I would say on on that. Challenge is when a vision loses momentum, so churches can not everything is always up into the right. Yeah, Church life. You can you can have opposition, you can have challenge you can have persecution, if people are listening to this in parts of the world, you're suffering is suffering persecution Church, it looks very different maybe today than it did a year ago or five years ago, people can you know, churches go through seasons, don't they? And I think sometimes that's a massive challenge. But, but I've, I've overcome that by thinking, the vision is what God wants us. So whatever is happening, yeah, you go back to what did God say? What does God want? What you know, what's the call and vision on your life? I think another challenge is the fact that sometimes we don't like planning and preparation. We just we kind of just want the Holy Spirit to turn up and do
David Mckeown 16:36
the quick fix for Berlin, as they say, Yeah, but I
Paul Benger 16:39
think having a good vision Sunday does require planning and preparation. I think that's the key. And then the last thing I would say is sometimes fear, what if, what if it doesn't happen? What if What if I say Our vision is to do X, Y, and Zed? We don't achieve it. And that fear stops us? Yeah. And I think that that is a challenge for many leaders. And that's why we encourage leaders to build a culture of experimentation, build a culture of we're having a go, Yeah, you know, we're just trying to, we're just trying to follow God and actually build a culture of we will fail at some things, we will get some things wrong, but we're always gonna keep moving forward. So
Nathan Benger 17:26
and going back to the first part, we talked about vision, obviously, creating momentum, and maybe even building faith. You know, that fear element, actually, for leaders? That's a moment where you build your own faith? Yeah, yeah. It's a moment where you stretch yourself, you stretch your own leadership, or, you know, you step out on the water yourself. And yes, you know, it's a moment way you have to rely on God. Because for me, you know, if we don't, you know, if we don't have that vision that maybe even scares us. We can sometimes just leaving the comfort in the comfort zone, and we'll just settle for what's happening, rather than pushing the vision forward. Yeah. And I think I think that's just important to realise for many leaders that there is going to be a moment where you, yeah, you scared?
Paul Benger 18:16
I always ask for a gift of faith. Yeah. When it comes to either vision Sunday, sometimes vision Sunday, less so but but certainly vision offering. I sometimes I asked for a gift of faith. Yeah. For what, what God wants us to believe for? And, yeah,
David Mckeown 18:33
I think there's something in there by use the phrase though, that that, that word experimental? Yeah, just open that up a little bit more far as you know, because obviously, some churches may not be used to thinking, let's have a good song. Yeah. What would you say under that?
Paul Benger 18:47
I mean, one example I can I can give what we were multicampus Church is you said we've now got six campuses. And but we've tried other initiatives to start canvases or to start services. And they've not rarely taken off. And so we've had to pull them back, stop them, and step back from them. But you, we've never felt we had to beat ourselves up. And so any, anybody I would hope in our Church doesn't feel like they failed. In that because we were having a go, we were experimenting, we were, you know, trying something. And I think even when we've tried, and then we've stepped back from that trail, we've always learned. So it was never a failure. It was all it was a learning curve. For us. Sometimes it was a learning curve. Maybe I'm not sure we heard God. Yeah. Other times. It was a learning curve that well, maybe God wanted to prepare us for something. Something else. I once said in a message which a friend of mine keeps reminding me of I once said, If this is not the thing, it could be the thing that leads to things. Yeah. So and it was, it's almost like nothing is wasted. Yeah, nothing is wasted. And so you've got to have that sense. Don't beat yourself up, you know, you know, even as an individual, you know, you might have stepped out and things might have not worked out.
David Mckeown 20:17
Yeah. And even as a leader, the leader step died. And yeah, it hasn't worked out as they anticipated. And sometimes they just can almost beat themselves up or have a little bit of a pity party or worry about what will the Church think I'm just thinking of what you were saying there, you know, I suppose that's building that into the life of the Church is not just the idea of leaders need to experiment, but actually, the Church needs to be willing to say we're gonna have a go at this work, you know, this may work, it may not work. But actually, that's part of building that into the culture. And you
Paul Benger 20:51
want to have a, you want to have a culture where you actually can be disappointed. But also you can laugh. Yeah. Well, we didn't do that very well. Yeah. Let's learn from
Nathan Benger 21:02
not taking yourself too seriously.
David Mckeown 21:05
As someone once said, seriousness isn't a part of the fruit of the Spirit.
Paul Benger 21:10
Great phrase. Yeah. Great.
Nathan Benger 21:11
So like, just getting into like, you know, we said, the nuts and bolts, like, so how should leaders listen to their share the vision? How should they do a vision Sunday?
Paul Benger 21:23
Okay, so the nuts and bolts, for me would be first of all, pick a date and a time and then draw up a plan, then we're going to do it on that Sunday. You know, and, you know, make sure you know, when holidays are Yeah. Yeah, anyway, but pick a date time and start to plan. Focus on what's in the leaders heart. So so in the leader and the leadership team, what's in the heart, your heart at this moment, because even though the vision doesn't change, the emphasis can shift from moment to moment from season to season. I don't think that emphasis should shift every week or no, but but what's in the leaders heart in that moment? What's God put there, strategically build momentum. And so you know, in the life of the Church vision, Sunday's come in, we'll start to announce that, you know, four weeks, four weeks out, we're going to share the vision we're going to share what's on our heart for the year have had what we want to
Nathan Benger 22:27
see what we also i We also have a rhythm now. Yeah, because we've built it into the Church, that then people expert that's coming. Yeah, they know that's coming. They know, February, March, there's going to be a vision. And that's because going back to you've we've picked a day. Yeah. And a time, unusually, every year, it's the same similar time.
Paul Benger 22:46
Yeah. And the only time it changes is with the colour shifts.
David Mckeown 22:50
And again, just picking up on that a little bit that you know, we step back or not, then obviously, you've got stuff like we you're showing that through your leaders first year, you're maybe a staff trade, something like that. And then yeah, you didn't work. So it's, it's a low word. We managed to four weeks in their service, but it works been done beforehand.
Paul Benger 23:09
Yeah, much, much before. And and we're working on stuff now that we will announce next February, March, you know, that we're wanting to build into the life of the Church. Give thanks for what God has done. When I think I think you you want to on a vision, Stan Sunday stand up and say, look what God has done. Yeah. And, you know, tell those, tell those stories, get somebody to share testimony and highlight some ministry that's been, you know, successful in the life of the Church. I remember, like, one one year, you know, we put a photo up of a guy from our Derby campus, Macaulay, and we put that across everywhere. And we just said, We want you to meet Macaulay. And we just told people about this guy and the fact that like, across the life of Church, he was like, a beast when it came to serve. And he was so many teams. While we celebrated. We celebrated Macaulay but we also told his story. Yeah, a faith thing. coming to faith in Christ and everything else. So give thanks for what God has done. include something new, you know, something, something different, something special, make the day a little bit different, a bit special, include something new, often our creative team or create something they might write a song. So I think it was four years ago, we did a series called we risk the ocean. And they wrote a song called we risk the ocean and we're still singing that song. Today on sort of vision days and stuff, because it was it was so good. You can turn your vision Sunday you're like I've just mentioned into a series so that year we reached the ocean. That was a four week series. Yeah. And we did four weeks building up to week four is vision, vision Sunday. On that give people some thing to take away. Often we've produced a booklet, just around some of the thoughts, some of the ideas and people have appreciated that. Over the years, we've produced an annual report, and said, Here's an annual report of like, you know, all our numbers from the year before, but just give them something to take away, like I've said, tell story, keep the vision alive. include lots of people, I think, don't, you know, don't just stand up there as this lead Pastor or the senior Pastor, but include lots of people because the vision we we've pinched a phrase, I guess, from a Church called Hillsong, that, that the Pastor says, the great churches are not built on the gifts and talents of a few but a sacrifice of many. Yeah. And so that's include lots of people, and then include a clear call for commitment. So, you know, the vision is great, but we're not just here. We're not just showing you a movie. Yeah, we're, we're giving you something that you can put your life into the serve, that you can give that you can be involved in that next year, when we tell stories, it's because you know, you've contributed, you've been involved. At some level,
David Mckeown 26:16
there's something powerful about that. And, you know, just calling that commitment from people. And by and large, I think people want that. They want to commit themselves to something don't Yeah. And so just to draw that out and get people to commit to your vision, whether it's praying or giving or thinking of the vision offering. And because we you know, here at IKON, we have a bit of a time difference between the vision day and the vision offering. Yeah, we'll get to in our next part. Yeah, but it is an important one that because it gives people time then to commit not only to pray, give to see, or whatever, at some sort of commitment level on our site as well.
Paul Benger 26:53
So we do february, march revision Sunday, October, for given and so part of the core for commitment is here's how you can get involved 123 X Y, Zed. But also we've got our vision offering coming out in October, which is months away. But why don't you plan now, yeah, to bring something significant, to keep our vision moving forward. So there's a call for commitment in the rhythm and in the life of our Church.
Nathan Benger 27:23
Now really go some some great nuts and bolts that I want to just to finish, whether we just share a few of the successes, the stories that we've encountered, from building a vision Sunday into our calendar, into the life of Church, just some of those things that where we've seen, you know, people grab a hold of their vision, you know, see it move forward?
Paul Benger 27:43
Well, I think when you think of, you know, I guess we've done this now over 10 years. And I think vision Sunday's we've done for 1516 years, and vision offerings we've done for 1010, just over 10 years. And I mean a big success, it gives the Church a sense of vision and builds that in, but some practical ones, we moved into the building where we're doing this podcast, yeah, nine years ago. And I think a large percentage of that being successful was we'd been setting the vision in the years previously, you know, we want to move we want to find a building. We even had some plans drawn up for building a building, but then we actually found an already built building that we could move into, and it created that momentum so that when we said hey, we, you know, we we can move into this building in six months time. The Church was ready. Yeah, you know, the Church was ready to give the Church was ready to work. I mean, just remember volunteer days, like loads of people coming out. We've launched new campuses, we've been able to launch new campuses. So you know, we've sometimes said, you know, next year or in two years time, we're thinking we'd love to send a team to this place to start a campus. So if I give an example Darby we would have mentioned that, probably 18 months before we did anything, but what we did, we built a team in one of our services in Chesterfield, you know, so from visions and they said we're going to build a team that are ready so that in 18 months time they can go to Darby, so we spent some time building a team and again people bought into that people volunteered. And Nathan you you will get let let now I think it was 21 people went with you to Darby Yeah, yeah. And by some miracle of God on campus is still alive. Still
David Mckeown 29:42
believe America? Yeah,
Paul Benger 29:43
we do. Again, launch new services, new initiatives. All the things in the community, you know, says things like mums and toddlers groups, you know, all kinds of things that we've been able to learn to connect groups you stuff, even staff. We've even come to sometimes come to our Church and said, you know, we, we need a vision. We need to we need staff for this. We just can't keep coping with just through volunteers equipment. Next steps. There's so many wins over the last 10 years. Like it's in. It's incredible. Yeah. I mean, if 10 years ago, somebody would have said through having vision Sunday, Will, these will be the winds? I'd have thought now that they won't have that many when there's more wins than I anticipated. Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Benger 30:37
And I think it's important to recognise that it wasn't just that that vision. It was it didn't just happen, because we did a vision Sunday. Yeah, a vision Sunday was a catalyst for it. But it was that continuing to communicate that vision and that vision, it was that clarity and clarify it. And that's where we're going. Yes, yes.
David Mckeown 30:57
Celebration of that sort of helps with that. repeating it regularly. And just just picking up on that. Just before we wrap up here. One of the things said there was regarding the Darby that was 18 months. Yeah. So that's, that's a long period of time on one. Yes. But it's not really
Paul Benger 31:14
no other leaders. Were talking about it two years. Yeah.
David Mckeown 31:17
And the only reason to pick that up is because sometimes we feel is when we hear from God, and we have a vision for God, we think we have to act instantly, like my role. Or actually, there's something going back to what we said earlier about properly planning, earning, yeah. And not rushing, because I've had something of God that actually we can take our time. Yeah. And do the thing. Right. And so then the vision Sunday, really, you know, carries that forward.
Paul Benger 31:40
Yeah. And that will be an example of one where we said let's do, let's do these steps and law. Yeah. And we were able to do all these steps and lunch, there's been others where we'd still like to do, where we've kind of took three steps forward to back two steps forward three by Yeah, but we've still got the vision. Yeah, we just haven't found the method yet. Yeah. You know, we've tried to think, but it's just proven to be the thing that ultimately leads to the
Nathan Benger 32:11
yeah, sorry, got really good. It's been great to talk around how to have a great vision Sunday. And we're going to kind of do in two parts on vision. And next time, we're going to talk about the power of a vision offering. Just want to say thank you to everyone who has already subscribed watched please give us raters, however you do that, however, you're consuming this content, share it with friends, just great content to get out there. Let me also encourage you to download the show notes, many of the notes that have been made, maybe you're listening to this in the gym or on a run well, those show notes are available for you to grab those and implement those in your Church. But it's been great to be together on the church explained podcast, and we look forward to seeing you next time as we talk about the power of a vision offering
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
