CEP 07: STEVE MAWSTON - THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO CONNECT NEW PEOPLE INTO YOUR CHURCH

Jun 14

By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger

Welcome to Episode: 07 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.

In this episode, we chat with Ps Steve Mawston from Soul Church on how to connect new people into your church effectively. Steve spent 14 life-changing years with his wife at Hillsong Church, and one of his many roles was the ‘new person’s Pastor’. Discover practical insights that will turn your visitors into members.

Listen and access the full show notes below or search for The Church Explained Podcast on Apple Podcast or where you get your podcasts and listen for free.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

David Mckeown 0:00

Hey welcome to the Church explained podcast we appreciate you joining us the Church explained podcast is a conversation to develop your leadership and grow your Church. Our goal in this podcast is to share inspirational insights and ideas resource leaders, churches, and teams, through conversations with key team players at IKON Church, and other invited guests. In this episode, we're going to explore the most effective ways to connect new people into the life of Church.

David Mckeown 0:30

I'm Dave, and I'm Nathan, we're hosts of this podcast. We are.

Nathan Benger 0:35

and today we're joined on this podcast by Steve Mawston, and we're talking about the most effective ways to connect people into Church, new people into Church. A little bit of information about Steve, if you listened to our last podcast, you'll know this, but I picked this up from his website. Steve is one of the pastors at soul Church a multi site Church based in Norwich in the UK led by the great because he might be listening again, Jon and Chantel Norman. And you and your wife, Rachel spent 14, as you put on your website life defining years as part of the team in Hillsong, Australia. And what's really interesting is actually you were new people's pastors at the hills campus. Is that right? Yep. For part of that time, and then 2008, you've returned with a passion to see the Church grow in the UK? And 2018, not 2008. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Great.

David Mckeown 1:30

So after you're the right person to talk to really arent you, if you were doing that for so many years, on helping new people get into Church.

Steve Mawston 1:37

I didn't do it. For the whole time. We probably did it for 18 months, I had 11 roles, different roles in our time there. So there's two ways of looking at that either. We were absolutely rubbish. And they couldn't find a place to fit. All we were really good. You can decide at the end of the podcast.

David Mckeown 1:54

it's whether he's on all those 11 roles at the same time, but yeah, definitely didn't. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. So

Nathan Benger 2:01

what what is some of the important things, or the focuses that we should have when it comes to new people coming into Church, coming into the life of Church?

Steve Mawston 2:12

Look, the three words I always think are really important when it comes to new people. And it's these three words, celebration, assimilation, and activation. Good words. And so the first one very just kicked off the first one, I think it's really important that we celebrate new people, we acknowledge them. I don't know whether you've ever been on holidays to a Church, and you go in and nobody speaks to you. Yeah. Now the service, the service might be exceptional, the preaching might be phenomenal. But you'll never go back. If nobody acknowledges you or even better celebrate you. I remember hearing an Oprah Winfrey interview and they asked her about all of the shows that you've done Oprah what was the one life defining lesson and she very surprisingly, she talked about a psychologist that had done some research on parenting. And they said that when a child walked into a room, they were looking to see that they were acknowledged and celebrated by their parent. And if the parent would look at them, and how are you and smile, they grew up with a healthy sense of identity, if they just ignored them. They grow with insecurities. So I thought, Wow, what an amazing thought that that's the one of all of the great world leaders that Oprah has interviewed. That's the one thing she took away. And it made me realise every person is looking to be celebrated. Yeah, every person that's new to your Church is subconsciously asking this question, did you actually notice me? Do you see that I was here? Or do you just treat me as a number in your system?

Nathan Benger 3:45

So what are some of the ways that like churches can celebrate a new person,

Steve Mawston 3:50

some of the practical ways is making sure they get a great welcome as they walk, you know, you guys have been really intentional on this. People at the door, people in the foyer people as they walk into the auditorium. We used to have spotters who adopt a row in Hillsong, welcoming them into their seats. So I think that's really important. And when the service starts acknowledging the new people, when the MC moment comes, acknowledging them again, when the preacher starts, acknowledge them as someone makes a decision. So we would aim to acknowledge new people three or four times just in the service. we'd give them a red bag with gifts, you know, different people have different ways of doing it. But the delivery mechanism is up to you. The principle is, celebrate new people, acknowledge them.

David Mckeown 4:33

So I like that idea. Celebrate new people. We'll get on to the other words in a moment. So just trying to think of that because that sounds like a system really, doesn't it? You know, do you think churches need to have some sort of system? Doesn't matter what size they are, but do you think they need a system?

Steve Mawston 4:48

Look, I think before the system comes the culture, I like the value. Yeah, because you can have all the systems in the world but if you're if your heart doesn't beat for new people, if you're not passionate, yeah. about new people doesn't, it doesn't matter what system you get, people will sniff it. I go running with john Norman. And you know, every now and then a dog will appear and I hate dogs. Because I got I used to, I went door to door knocking when I was 13 for Jesus and a little dog came out and bit my ankle. So since then I've never liked dogs. Now, whenever I go running, if there's a dog, they'll run past Jon and start barking at me. Yeah, exactly. They can tell and I reckon new people can tell whether we actually really value them and are interested, it's not about the system.

David Mckeown 5:33

So so you could have all that system as you're saying. But actually, if there's no heart in that system, heart, and it's missing the point, and value.

Steve Mawston 5:40

one thing I love about Jon, I mean, he's called it soul Church when he is passionate about souls. Yeah. And I've said this a number of times, I feel really challenged by him. He's a chaplain in the club Norwich City Football Club, and he's literally had a half of the playing staff, most of the management team on the front row stood with him. So when you when you stand up, when you preach, and you see someone who's playing in the Premier League, you become much more aware of new people. Are we talking about Norwich, yeah. Norwich aren't in the premier League.

Steve Mawston 6:12

Well, they were last year. And they're going back this year. But it you know, what I mean, is it's the principal. And when was the last time you as a Church leader, brought someone new, because you see it through different eyes, you see it about as being more than a system, you notice when somebody acknowledges them and spends a bit of time and has the conversation. So I think the cultural value comes first, then the system has got to back it up. Wonderful. So the second word was assimilation. So that's probably more where you've got the system. And that can be, you know, it can be a million different ways of doing it at the moment where we're experimenting with something in soul Church. I resisted this week. We talked about doing this in Brisbane about four years ago. And that's QR codes. Okay, gotta get QR codes to assimilate people into groups and teams. And I resisted it. And the reason I resist it is this, I think, when it comes to Church life, you've got to be two words, high touch and high tech. Touch means the soft skills tech means the hard skills, don't like the word touch sounds a bit weird. But if you go with the high tech and high touch, and I thought the QR code was a bit too high tech. Whereas now, because of COVID, everyone is used to whipping out their phones and scanning a QR code. So the moment we're gonna stick these QR codes on the back of the chairs, because we've been using them to check in to Church. Now everyone's familiar. So now just to make it easy for people that want to get acknowledged, but don't necessarily want to go to a welcome lounge We're gonna stick QR codes on the back of chairs, hey, if you're new, why don't you just scan the code? That way we know that you're part of our Church. So high tech, high touch,

Nathan Benger 7:59

and I think that it comes into a relevancy as well, because I think we'd have to teach a lot of our Church how to use QR code, whereas now we don't have to. And it's part of their life. Exactly that part of their life. So they're so used to it. That actually it's a it's something that we're able to use as well. Yeah, exactly. Right. So it's interesting, you're talking about, obviously, that celebration, and on our welcome cards, we used to have like a little part that used to say like, it was kind of like a feedback little bit. Yeah. And all the time, as a Church, we get such a friendly Church, which was great. But then we'd be like, you know, what, we don't want just want to be a friendly Church want to be a Church of friends? Yes, that talks into the assimilation and building that. And again, does that come into like, again, a culture thing, rather than just a system?

Steve Mawston 8:58

I really do think you've hit on, hit on it there. It's, it's that value of when you come to Church? Do you just talk to your friends? Or do you ever talk to anyone that's new. So we do a we call it PSG pre service gathering, where we gather all our volunteers. And jon will often come in and say, guys, we all know each other. When you spill out into the foyer, it's now about talking to someone that's new, someone that looks different to someone that smells different to you. Let's make sure our mission is to love on people care for them, connect them. So I absolutely agree. It's a cultural value. So

David Mckeown 9:35

you got to be intentional about that sort of 100% of people are so used to being in a group, you know, there's got to be something more encouraging them to get out of that group. And just having that conversation with somebody. Yeah. So let's try and draw this a little bit because we've touched a little bit about this idea of how things change within Church in the sense of welcoming new people. I think they have but one because we're online a lot of the time, and even when we get out of lock line depending on when this airs, but when we get out of lock down, the equation is is, you know, do they always work? You know, clearly some of them may not work, and hence QR codes, whats your thinking on that does it work some of the stuff we've done before, you know that welcoming people being there for them, or, or is there something more that we need to do? Yeah,

Steve Mawston 10:24

it's good. It's interesting that you mentioned this, does it work? Is it effective? When we're in Hillsong? Obviously, it's a huge Church. Yeah. And we had an amazing team and amazing resources. And so when, when we apart as well as being the new people's Pastor, I, one of my jobs was connect group Pastor, then the volunteer Pastor. So I was in this whole assimilation world for a number of years. So one of the things we employed a guy who was a data data miner, and so what he did was everyone's details that we've entered into my Hillsong, which was our follow up system, he would track them over several years and produce statistical reports on how effective we were being, which was really fascinating. So we found out, for example, if someone joined the Church, and this is true of any Church, not just Hillsong. And if you do nothing, there's something like a 4% chance, they'll still be there next year. So it's actually a very small number. If you do nothing. However, we found that if we made a call in week one, it would double to about 8%. Just just a single call. So so they're in Church. Yeah. Someone acknowledges and gets their details on a card. Okay, card gets entered. And then yeah, so statistically, we can prove that there's an 8% chance that they'd be there. Now, here's the interesting one. If you've got them in a group within the first six months, you've got them into relationship, the statistical chance that they'd be there guess what it would be? Come on, I have a guess boys. What do you reckon? 35? What do you think 60 was actually 56%. Statistically, if you've got them serving on a team, so it's not just assimilation, its activation, it was 64%. So you think about that. There's an eight fold multiplier, the eight times more likely, if you can get them in relationship. And that's why our whole focus was to get them into either a group or into a team. Now, the one, the one factor that was really interesting was there was a negative. So if there's a 4% chance they'll be there. There's one factor, which was 3%. And that was this, if you connected with them, and they were expecting you to call them and you didn't, if you're a group leader or a team leader? Yeah. It went down to 3%. Wow. Yeah. Because in their head, they thought, what they don't care about me. Yeah. It's got nothing to do with the system. everything to do with when a kid walks in the room? Does somebody see them? Yeah. So again, it's about genuine authentic friendliness, love, compassion, of all the systems in the world. But it's the personal touch, that makes a difference.

Nathan Benger 13:09

I think that's great, that personal touch, because even when we were a smaller Church, and you might not have loads of staff or even volunteers to, to be able to do that. One of the things we used to do is like we'd send a letter that come from our pastors Paul and Jeannie. And you know, there's families who, like, came to the area, we're looking for Church, and they've said, we came back because we got a letter. Absolutely. We came back, somebody noticed me. somebody celebrated me.

David Mckeown 13:40

And it's going that extra step. Isn't that as well, like, just a bit of a side note, but we ordered some tea. I'm a coffee drinker, but we ordered some tea from Fortnum and mason in London. And when they sent me the tea, actually, it came with a little card was gold stamped. Come on, say, Hey, we appreciate you for buying our tea. And I thought, oh, that could probably work in Church to have a gold stamp. Just you know, that extra mile isn't really, yeah. Or we can we're really passionate about people, but not just because they're a number, but actually because they're important. Yeah, I think that's the thing. Cuz I guess in some settings, people can just see them as this is a danger that they see them as an asset or as a number. Yeah, there's danger in that as well, though, isn't it?

Steve Mawston 14:23

Yeah. And I think if the Church becomes too corporate, especially big Church, Brits have this thing about big churches, they're a little bit suspicious. So you've got to make sure you get that message. message across. We're actually a small Church with a lot of people. We still so I had a similar story recently to your fortnum. I'm not as posh as you so I don't go. But I get a gousto box. Because Because I'd been we'd had these during lockdown. We'd been with them for six months, and I was opening the box and it was just massive bar a chocolate. I'm thinking Well, I didn't order that. I know exactly what I ordered. And then there's little cards saying because You've been a faithful customer, we just wanted to send you this. And again, gousto went from being a system to someone who was actually interested in me. And that's the challenge for us as churches, can we genuinely communicate our heart to people that were interested in that?

Nathan Benger 15:15

That's really good. So we've had celebration, assimilation, and I forgot your third one, activate activation. Look, Dave, remembered, he's got a good memory. Well, this reminds me of Star Trek and the borg. The Nerd is coming out.

David Mckeown 15:35

The last one, go ahead. And let's let's let's finish on that one, because that's a great one as well as you know, so

Steve Mawston 15:40

activation is if we see each person that walks through the door, as a gift from God Ephesians 2:10 his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works. Yeah, so I genuinely try when I talk to person is, I ask a few questions really quick to think about the gifts and the abilities and the talents that have just walked in with them. They're a whole person, and I'm like, how could they help us? How could they be part of the mission? And I've met people, I say, You are a phenomenal communicator. Have you ever thought about speaking? And they're like blown away that you think like that. So I think the more we can get people engaged in the things that they're passionate about,and that I think that's crucial. That really isnt it, it's not just making everyone a host. Yeah. Which can be our default. Yeah. But finding out what do you actually love? What would you love to do? And so I love the fact that we have the opportunity to, to see people as the gifts that God has entrusted to us. And how can we? No, this is big for you guys. How can we see them flourish? Yeah, I love that thought about your Church. So that's about activation, getting them in touch with the reason, serving the mission,

Nathan Benger 16:50

it comes back to the serving as well. Yeah, that actually, they're more likely to still be around from the statistics. Yeah, that if you do, you know, using that language, activate them. But But I guess, you know, like, the key is, I'm not just going to activate you in, you can serve the teas and coffees, yeah, but I'm actually going to find out about you. And it again, it goes back to that cultural thing of it's not just a system or a process, trying to get people to this point, but actually I'm going to value you as a person and really see the gifts and flourish. For people. Are they some practical ways that you guys do that? Maybe at soul church or Hillsong do that.

Steve Mawston 17:35

We've attempted loads and loads of different systems. At one stage, we did the gift exchange, which was, you know, an online questionnaire, tell us about your gifts, your experiences, your talents, and then we've got all of the teams in our Church to put them online and try and get them get them working together. And we had some limited success. Because again, if you try and make the system, the answer, it's never the answer. It's about the people and the conversation. So yes, we do. We call it soul track. Some churches call it growth track, where they come in week one, they meet jon and Chantel week two, who are values week three, it's how we can activate them. And but again, the system will always break down. But if you get the right people, the right connectors, and create the culture where there's the right conversations with a system, you've got a much, much better chance, I see volunteering a bit like joining the M1, there's lots of onramps. So whether they get onto the M1 through soul track, or whether it's through meeting john and Chantel or whether it's a friend said, Hey, I'm serving on streets this week, come and join me, doesn't matter how they get on the on ramp. Let's just get them activated. And on there. However, we can

Nathan Benger 18:47

You use the word there called connectors. Yeah. And I've heard this used in some settings that I've been in, especially around Hillsong, that people like I'm going to connect you with someone. Is that is that key?

Steve Mawston 19:00

I think it is. I think the people that you're have in areas like the foyer are really important you want the people people are not just the person that was available. Right? You actually want the right people with the right gifts that I kind of see the Church as the auditorium is where you connect with God, the foyer is where you connect with people. And they're both really important. So creating environments in the foyer where there's coffee and great atmosphere where people can hang out and you can actually have those conversations, hey, let me introduce you to so and so, where that's happening organically. It's much healthier than someone signs up on a card goes into a computer. It's referred to a team member who may or may not be functional at that time, who then makes a call and there may or may not be in when the call is made. It's a seven step process. Whereas if it's a , let me introduce you This Northern Irish guy says the word error is really weird. You will love him he does podcast Alright, so it's about finding the gift right? And then connecting them with the right person. You didn't come back at me?

David Mckeown 20:01

Well we're not over yet. Hey, it's been great for you to share some very helpful insights I really do like, because I think a lot of times churches have good focus on the system. And that's good just to bring it back to it has to do with the culture and the heart of the people and the heart of the leaders, because they don't care about people. And that's an awful thing to say. But sometimes, leaders are so busy, they're not even thinking about new people coming in through the doors. So I think bringing it back to the heart and back to the culture is is the key thing. And it doesn't matter what size of Church You are so there'll be a Church watching today, there could be a small Church, you know like, as Nathan said, we've no teams no people to put in place, but it's to do with a heart, isn't it? Yeah. And and if we treat people and one of the terms you use there was people are a gift. And we see those people as a gift and treat them as a gift than actually, that's the thing that will make the difference. It's good, Dave.

Nathan Benger 20:58

Well, it's been great to do this episode and look at new people and just want to encourage you maybe you've got to think around that celebration, assimilation activation, remember them. I remember that three, maybe you've got to do that. But we want to thank you, Steve, for being part of this podcast and the previous one as well. And I know I know for sure that we'll get you back on and just want to say a big thank you to everyone who has listened to the Church explained podcast, wherever you're consuming this content, then please share, like, subscribe, send it on to somebody who would really benefit from hearing what we've talked about today. Plus, I also want to point you towards ikon.church/open IKON Open where there are free resources for you as a Church. It's been great to be together today and we can't wait to join together for our next episode of the Church explained podcast. We'll see you soon.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai