CEP SEASON TWO EP:02 - The Random Episode
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 02 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us for the “RANDOM EPISODE”. In this show, both Nathan and I (Dave) answer questions randomly chosen by each other around life and leadership.
We hope you are inspired by what we share.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
PLEASE NOTE THIS CONVERTED BY Ai so may not be perfect but it is useful 😀
David Mckeown 0:00
Welcome to church explained podcast a conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church
David Mckeown 0:12
today, it's gonna be a little bit different. Yes, it's the random podcast today. Random podcast that's random. And it could be very random. It could be random. And this could be a success. It's certainly an experiment. Yes. So, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna, we've got some topics here, some subjects and our coffee cups today. And we're just gonna randomly pick a question or a subject. And we're going to just talk around that subject together. Yeah. So I think it's could be fun at let people get to know us a little bit more.
Nathan Benger 0:44
It will. Hopefully, I'll encourage you. Yes. And as your questions, that's what we
David Mckeown 0:48
want. We want questions from you. Yeah. Lots of people are asking us questions, but not necessarily always sending them in. So if you want to send in a question, maybe you're thinking around leadership or growth development. Hey, DM us, send it in to us. And hopefully, we can answer that question in our next random podcast them if it's going to be successful. Yeah,
Nathan Benger 1:09
we will say, Well, I think I think he's going to be fun. So
David Mckeown 1:13
hey, should we start? Should we start with you? Yes. Right. So I'm gonna go into I have no clue what is going to go come out now know that, uh, you know, but we know it's something so it could be useful for you. So I'm going to friend read your writing. So we've got something around. Oh, a good one. Okay. We want to talk to you about transition transition. And the reason we want to talk about that is because your roles change this year.
Nathan Benger 1:36
Yes, it has so still oversee youth youth Pastor, but now have become campus Pastor at our Chesterfield campus. And so yeah, transition has been a big part of this past year. Yeah. For my self, and my wife and family. So yeah, but it's also been big part for you,
David Mckeown 1:59
and has, but before we get into me, I want to come back to your show. So let's try to figure out what's been the biggest challenge for you in regards to transition?
Nathan Benger 2:08
I would say the biggest challenge is, knowing how much
David Mckeown 2:15
to do. Okay, how quickly, right?
Nathan Benger 2:18
So you can, so you transition into a role. And, you know, so transition to becoming campus Pastor, and you have all of these ideas, you have all of this stuff that you want to do, because
David Mckeown 2:32
you've been thinking about all that stuff? Even before you go, yeah, you're thinking about all that stuff?
Nathan Benger 2:36
Yeah. So this is what I love to do this is and then it's so how, how do I do that? Yeah. When do I do it? How quickly without rocking? Because, you know, I just feel campus is healthy, solid, solid, and good teams, all of that. But there are little things that, you know, might want to change and tweak and all of that. And how much do you do? At what time? And when do you do it? Is it too early? Is it too late? Yeah, I guess that's been the biggest challenge. And still is. Because, you know, that only started in September 2021. Yeah, the role. The still is the challenge of do we do that now? Or do we weigh
David Mckeown 3:18
when we do those years, and I suppose like every leader is thinking about that, when they have a transition or a change in leadership? What a do first year? I suppose that's a good question, isn't it? Yeah. And if you figure
Nathan Benger 3:31
No, no, no, taken lots of advice. Yeah, I think even some of our podcasts and some of the things that we've done have really helped in terms of thinking, but you can speak to one person and they'll, yeah, you need to do it, like straightaway, speak to someone else. And they're like, well, just, you know, ease it and, and do that. And so I think the biggest thing that I've learned is that, like communication is key. Yeah, communicating. And so for me, communicating with my leaders, communicating those with those who are leading me as well around some of those ideas to get their thoughts on that. And is that, you know, is it a good idea to do and so I think communication is a big key for that.
David Mckeown 4:21
So how are you feeling about the sort of future and that sort of going into that role of transition? How do you feel about it, you know, that that change of role needed you have to change your thinking a little bit or
Nathan Benger 4:32
I think already there I think my thinking was already there. So you know a little bit my story is that we launched into a place called Darby, and I was campus Pastor there. And then we handed that on came back to Chesterfield to be part of the team in Chesterfield. And then now a Chesterfield campus pastors so we've been part of that as a campus Pastor and things in that thing you know, before just field is on a much larger scale than Derby was and that was like pioneering. Here's, here's a Church. come first. That's been around 35 years. And now I'm leading that campus and leading people who've been in the Church since I was a kid.
David Mckeown 5:16
Yeah. And I suppose leading it's still with the senior leader. Yep. Still there. Which is your your daughter? Yeah, that may come off as a question.
Nathan Benger 5:25
No knows.
David Mckeown 5:25
But your dad and obviously your mom, senior leaders here. Yeah. IKON Church. They're still around every Sunday. Yeah, aren't they really? So you got to lead I suppose. In the light of that as well. Yeah. Anything want to say about that as yet?
Nathan Benger 5:39
I think Yeah. Like, for me, it's just being confident, confident and who you are confident in who I am. Yeah. Confident in my leading and realising that they are for me. Yeah. And they want me, you know, they've not put me in this role to fail. No, they've put me in this role, because they believe in me, and they believe in my leadership. So there's a belief there. And then keeping those lines of communication open, and especially
David Mckeown 6:11
on some people, I'm just thinking of this as we're talking. Some people could see that as a negative having them there. But actually, it's a real positive, isn't it? Yeah. Think about a deep time because, like, they've got your back. Yeah. Often they were like, if you went in as a Pastor to another Church, you don't know. At least you know, Ron, here, people know you that you've always got challenges. Well, that sort of stuff, but they know Yeah,
Nathan Benger 6:34
yeah. And I'd encourage anyone who's maybe a senior leader who's transitioning, were you staying in the Church? I think one of the big things you can do is be like on the front row, cheering them on cheering them on. Yeah. You know, being that biggest supporter. You know, even think little things like when someone comes up to you. I liked it when you did this. Say Yeah, but they do it better. Or, you know, it's just just, you know,
David Mckeown 6:59
I've heard you say that a lot recently. Yeah, he doesn't matter. Yeah.
Nathan Benger 7:03
No, it's good. So you yourself transitioned?
David Mckeown 7:11
Yeah. Yeah. So my role changed quite significantly, as well, as far as in the last year and a half. Because I went from a senior leader role leading to churches, we pulled all our churches together. So I brought my two choices, which were the hub Church, into IKON Church. And so it's been a bit of a transition for me from my role, as well as a senior leader, thinking about everything that you would normally think about as a senior leader to support narrowing that time to focus on a few key things, which is, it's been exciting, but also a bit of a shift. I think, in my mind. Yeah, man. Yeah. Because you're going from running like 100 miles an hour with lots of different things. Yep. To suddenly then you're running was you're still running. You're going quick. But you're running with fewer things. Yeah. Which can give more focus to Yeah. And that's been good. So some of the things that we've been able to get focus there's one like something like this the podcast at Allied Austan pietersite help leaders help churches and some of the stuff we're doing as well.
Nathan Benger 8:15
Now. Brilliant. Yeah, right. Let's dive in. dive in
David Mckeown 8:18
to Dave's pot of give me anything in here.
Nathan Benger 8:23
Here we go off scene as we've taught transition, right. The topic is IKON Open IKON, which is one of the things that has been your focus. So why don't you? For anyone who doesn't know? Well, maybe they've just tuned in to the podcast. What is IKON Open? Yeah, and maybe just share a little bit around? What's happened? Yeah, we
David Mckeown 8:44
can do that. So IKON, Open, agita is one of the sort of projects I've been heading up for us. And for anyone who hasn't come across before, it is a resource site filled with lots of stuff on there that churches or leaders and teams can go to, and they can download the resources that we've created. And we've, we want to give them a second life really, we've put them back out there. And so we've we've hundreds and hundreds of resources on there, where it let's say, for example, someone's just wants to put together a message but they need a spark an idea, or someone needs like a leadership talk or leadership idea or some insight into something. Well, hopefully they can come to our resource site, IKON dot Church forward slash open. Yep. And that they can get on there for free with hundreds of resources. They can download them. We've sort of taken our branding off them, so they can use them in their own context. And we launched it back in Easter this year. Yes. And I think since then, we've probably had rind about 25,000 hits on our website are people searching for the content, so it's brilliant. So the big pain is Hagen, we resource other people Heidemarie resource other churches and leaders and teams because people need help. Yeah, and churches need help. And it doesn't matter what Sighs churches, to be honest, take on IKON Open. The amazing thing is we've got some really big churches who have signed up. And I'll say, I can't really name them today, but there's some really big churches across the world. And then some smaller churches, like a new Church plant or anything of that nature. So there's lots out there where people are searching. And we've got lots of great content. There's other great content out there. We're not the only one doing this. But it's something we want to do as IKON Church because we just want to be generous. Yeah. And show our generosity to the capital T. Church. That's a little bit about it. Yeah. Yeah,
Nathan Benger 10:32
I know, as you know, when we started as a youth Pastor, he'd go search. Yeah, certain sites for ideas. Yeah. resources, would you some of those, some of those would take and then, you know, adjust them to fit our context. And so like, we're not precious about news it in whatever way
David Mckeown 10:52
do whatever. I think that's the heart, do whatever you want with it. I mean, if you want to use some of it, like we I like the phrase, like stay like an artist, remain so ticket, use it. You know, if it's going to help your Church and help your team grow and help you as a leader grow. Like we'd rather give it away free and let people use it. And at least at home, some doesn't rather than sitting somewhere in a Church somewhere.
Nathan Benger 11:17
And it's where all our podcasts, got podcasts? With show notes. Yeah. So
David Mckeown 11:22
we've got lots on our show all the podcast, all the resources, so they give people an idea of the haven't been on like there's stuff on the road messages. Yeah, youth stuff. Kids does creative and worship. General. What else? Anything else that I miss anything?
Nathan Benger 11:38
Off the top of my head can't think of any odd stuff. Top staff talks behind the scenes. Yeah, it seems so yeah. So really good. Great. All the way down. Come on. Yeah,
David Mckeown 11:49
I forgot it was, um, was it was random. So we're waiting on something. Okay. So let's see. We can get over you today as well. Okay. We have family farmer. Okay. Okay. Tell us your family's changed a little bit this year? A little bit. A lot. Yeah, you've got a little bit grayer on the site. Now. It's not great. Yeah. No, come on. Tell us. What's happened on your phone. Yes. Yeah. What's been the big change for you.
Nathan Benger 12:19
So as well as transition into being campus Pastor? My wife, Debbie, we had one son, yeah, his name Zion. And, and now we've got three sons adopted two boys. And that happened around the similar time just at the end of August as well. So yeah, so life has got a lot more full. Yeah. I don't like using the word busy. A lot more full. Feels better. Yeah. A lot more full. So yeah. So it's been a Yeah, big family shift going from one to three. Yeah. And big realisation. So So to give you a little bit of context, Zion is eight. And was at that point where you can pass him his clothes, he can get himself dressed, he can say to and go and brush your teeth. Yeah. Just got to watch him. But he will brush his own teeth. Yeah. Whereas now the boys there too. And I'm one. And so they managed to squat. Back to that. But also it was you didn't get that easing of you know, you got a baby. It was straight into toddler and one year old. So yeah, it's been fun.
David Mckeown 13:33
So terrible. I was thinking off a little bit if you don't mind sharing. I mean, see how you go? Yeah, I'm just trying to think what's it been like? I mean, because obviously, you've you've got one child, you've got all your love and attention is going to that one child. And then suddenly, you've got another T. Yeah, like, I want to say almost overnight. I know there's a process and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. But like suddenly to, to love, love one son, and then love another T. Yeah. Hate that felt?
Nathan Benger 14:05
Like, I think anyone who's had more than one kid probably felt, you know, like, Would I be able to? Yeah, and then it just happens. Yeah. And it was it was the same. You know, we went through a, you know, like a transition process where for, you know, 10 to 14 days carbon what it was, we'd be going to that where they were placed, we'd be they'd be coming to us for full days. And you'd be spending time together, getting to know them. But after a few days, it was like, well, they, you know, they could come be at home and be part of our family. And I guess it just was a mindset thing for me and my wife that as soon as we'd made the decision, they're part of our family. Yeah. Which, which gave me a bigger perspective. Not to go all spiritual, but gave me a bit bigger perspective on when the Bible talks about us being adopted, that it was like this moment of when we made the decision. They're part of our family. They were family. Yeah. And it was just like, that's it. Yeah, they're in the family. There's nothing else about it. I know, we've got, you know, different processes. But it just gave me a bigger perspective on God and the power of that whole thing of us being adopted into the family.
David Mckeown 15:30
And that's instant. Instant love. Yes. And acceptance. Yeah. And they were they, you know, you said that a piece of furniture, we're not going to splurge. But but there is something part of I can't even remember why I became a follower of Christ. When I was 19. Like, that's the one of the things that really hit me was suddenly I had all these new family members around me. Yeah, they had lots of friends. Suddenly, to feel that they belong to some Yeah. So I get what you're saying though, that sort of instant feeling.
Nathan Benger 16:02
And, and other people, other parents journeys might be different in terms of adoption. That's okay. And that's okay. And we would say a phrase here that I love in Church, we'd say you belong before you believe. Yeah, yeah. And so you know, there might be other things. And you know, and I think there are moments where you do have that. It was easier when we just had one, but I think every parent of multiple kids says the same. Yeah,
David Mckeown 16:27
well, well done. And you're finally suggestion. So right. Here we go. Give me a thing could
Nathan Benger 16:34
be anything? Oh, here we go. My you, you again, all the all the easy ones, I think, are you sure I'm sure go on a coaching. Okay. So obviously, we've got coaching as part as our IKON Open. Yeah, you yourself are doing some coaching. And I want to mention this, you're doing coaching with like our campus pastors. Yeah. You've done some training on this. Yeah. And like our campus pastors reflecting on that coach in saying it's really helpful. So I wonder if you dive in? I know, we've asked this question before, but why does senior leaders need a coach? What's the importance of coaching? Yeah, yeah.
David Mckeown 17:15
Well, yeah, it's a great topic. It is an easy one. But it's one I suppose it's, it's close to a heart at the minute. I love the coaching, I have to say it's an exciting thing to do. And I've been thinking a little bit like before, like, because we had that pull up this question for wider senior leaders or leaders need to come? I think they need a coach because they need someone to listen to them. They need someone to think with them. And sometimes it's easier to do that with somebody outside their contacts here, like ever senior leaders watching or listening. Maybe they're thinking about stuff. And they're generating their ideas in their head, but they're not quite at a point where they want to take it to their team. Yeah. Because they're not sure. 100% Well, that's where a coach comes in. Yeah. So to have a coach come alongside you to help process the thinking to help they get you on a journey from A to B. That's why it's a coaching brilliant and really helps Peter, do you mean, so both? Internally, we've been using it and externally as well with other Church leaders. And we've got it on the website as well, though. So if people are interested, they can find out about it. Yeah. But it's an exciting thing. It's it's different. It's similar to a normal conversation. Yeah. But it's, it's within a container, but put it that way.
Nathan Benger 18:29
If so, like I've experienced, you have experienced that happen. Yeah. So if I, if I say it like this, you're able to get? So it may be a you'll come with a topic or something you're thinking about? Yeah. And through coaching. It's not like you've thrown in, here's all my ideas. Correct. It's like, let me ask you a few questions. And then you get to the end. And through those questions, you we've been able to process through those questions. To get to a point of this as a next step. Definitely. And I think I think that's so important, because you can have a topic. Yeah, you can research it. And you can have all of these ideas. But I think what coaching has helped me to do anyways, focus and go, Okay, that's my next step. Yeah, that's the next thing. And also then if you do it on a regular, so it's not just a one time held, hold you accountable,
David Mckeown 19:20
hold accountable. And there's a bit of trust there as well, that builds with people. Yeah. And I think the other thing, just to point out is it's not transactional, you know, like you were saying, like, it's not like a coach comes out. Anybody who's doing coaching, pure coaching shouldn't come and say, here's the five things you've got to do. Yeah, they they've got to be listening to the person helping them think, and then getting the questions out of what they're saying. So I can't come into a coaching session. Here's my top 10 questions. No, because I never work, no domain. So I come ready to listen, to help process to help people think and it's been a real joy. Just step into that. Of course, like and leadership, like I've been having coaching type conversations the last 20 years. But these ones are a little bit different because they're more structured. Yeah. And if I put it this way, coaching harp and transformation happen inside a computer. So what I mean by that is, if you think of baking my own, so it's probably wasted on us really. Yeah. But the idea is like, if you're margin, like, you've got eggs, you've got flour, you got all that sort of stuff. They're all separate items. Yeah. But when you put them together, you create a kick. Yeah. So in other words, transformation takes place inside the container itself. And I'd say coaching works. So try, I'm more interested in what's the transformation we can happen rather than Hi, can we transact? What you know? How can I tell you 10 things? There's a lot of that out there on youtube. We're not interested in that. And as you said, like coaching, it doesn't really help. So we would encourage FERS senior leader Yeah, like, even if you don't come down, go to somebody. Cuz leaders need someone. Yeah. And not just in there. Yeah.
Nathan Benger 21:05
And I I'd encourage, personally, if you're a younger leader, you know, that you get a coach, like me just starting out? Yeah, you're like, where do I get some answers to questions down? Maybe it's not the answers you need. You just need someone to journey through those questions where
David Mckeown 21:22
that's that's a thing. Yeah. Discover through with you walk through with you. Yeah. And I know that some stuff that's been useful internally, and also, as I say, externally. Yeah, my big top recommendation, even if people don't come to us for coaching, we have it there. Or if they don't look senior leaders, they need the goal. Yeah. Young Leaders they need they need to get a coach, because really, they will find the benefit. a year down the line. Don't think why did I not have a coach? Yeah, it's like, you got to experience it. In Romania.
Nathan Benger 21:53
Definitely. No, no, yeah. That's been my experience. Why didn't I have a coach? Yeah, but and in many different fields, people have coaches these days, boy and fields have that they have coaches. So we should you know, for me, why not have a coach?
David Mckeown 22:08
Get them inside? Yeah, get definitely. Also tonight? Yes. Come on down. Like if you keep going that old. Boys got to ride. Here we go. So your next one is Oh, the biggest thing that you've learned? What shall we send the last year? Yes, let's
Nathan Benger 22:26
say the biggest thing you last year, the biggest thing I've learned in the last year, I probably mentioned it in the transition, but that communication is key down for me. And that actually you cannot over communicate something. So one of the things that I've probably said over the years, but you know, trying to put more into practice is the whole over communication. So, you know, you might have a staff team, or you might have leaders or team leaders or people you're leading in whatever sphere you're in. And you can say things multiple times, and you're thinking I've said this a lot. But that's the point where you're thinking I've said this a lot is where it's probably just beginning to drop into people that this is important. And especially in Church life, where you might have a staff meeting, you might have your leaders, me and you, you know, you might have different areas where you are saying the same thing. And then you're going to get up on the Sunday and say the same thing. But you've got to realise that Sunday, it'll be the first time someone hears it, that leaders meeting might be the first time someone hears it. And so the whole thing around communication, being key with your team, but also it being key in terms of moving things forward. So that's been your biggest learner. Yeah, I
David Mckeown 23:49
think the sounds Yes. Over communicate over communicate. Yeah. And I think I'd agree with that. Yeah. You know, I
Nathan Benger 23:55
know, assuming I'm not assuming people No, no. Because then you get into, you know, there have been moments where I might have assumed and then you get there and you're like, I'm surely surely I said that. It didn't happen.
David Mckeown 24:07
Because there's always that one person who's been left out somewhere else. Exactly. And you think you've told them? Yeah, you have, and they haven't heard? It's like the old thing with Church. I don't want to call it Church notice of Church news. Yeah. And someone says, I never knew relying on that. Yeah. Well, it's been on the screen for the last six weeks. Yeah. But over communicate. Yeah. It's been your biggest learn. Yeah. What about you? I think without harping back, I think come back to the co chair. I think you're personally like I went through some coach training. They allow me to coach better. Yeah. And my biggest thing is this is the understand the difference in my mind between coaching pastoring. Right. Now there is an overlap. Yeah. But the big differences is, is pastors always want to fix things. Yeah. Right. We always want to come with a solution. Yeah. Which is not a whole it's right. Yeah. We always want to come But when you're doing coaching, you're trying to equip. Yeah, it's about equipping and helping somebody solve their own problems, rather than coming and try and fix their problems. Yeah. My, I'm saying that's pastoring. That's, that's how a lot of people do pastoring. Yeah. And I think we shouldn't be pastoring that way. No, no. Because like I just experienced over the years, people company with all sorts of stuff. And in your mind, you're thinking, how am I going to fix this for them? Yeah, I made big discovery this year. Actually, it's it's not my responsibility to fix. I'll listen. I'll point them, I'll help them. Yeah. But it was through the coach training, actually, that I received. That helped me to grab that now. I've been thinking about it for a while. But it just solidified it for me this idea that actually, it's not my job to fix people. Yeah, as a Pastor or leader, but it's my job to equip people, lead people and help them find the answers for themselves. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, now
Nathan Benger 25:58
really good. Really good. Right. Let's dive in. Whatever we got here.
David Mckeown 26:05
So I wonder this is gonna be our last one. Yeah. What do you think? Or do you want another one? No.
Nathan Benger 26:10
Now we'll save these for another time.
David Mckeown 26:13
We could Yeah, no, no, go on. Go. Go. Go for this one. And then I literally want each one of you want
Nathan Benger 26:19
each one each. That means I've done more than you. But yeah,
David Mckeown 26:23
you're young. You're younger.
Unknown Speaker 26:24
All right. daily rhythms
David Mckeown 26:26
that help daily rhythms that hell yeah. Okay, so what do you so say some more like, what do you what do you want to draw?
Nathan Benger 26:35
So So maybe, maybe not so much in the, the usual? Read your Bible? And pray? Because we know that now, let me encourage you to do that. Yeah, that's a great daily rhythm. And that will help you. Yeah, but maybe outside of the context of the Church world. Those may be some spiritual practices. What are some daily rhythms that you would do that help?
David Mckeown 27:01
Okay, so not because I don't have any? Yeah. Okay. So just a few things I do. They do the most days, but not every day. Yep. Okay. But mostly, so they said throughout the year, probably for me, 90% of I headed that way. So a few things I do is a journal that's connected with a praying Yeah, but I've been journaling and writing stuff down for the last 30 years. Now I get into, because I became a Christian. And I began to read the Bible, and I simply just began to write down what I think God said. They do you have to be a Christian to do that. Of course you don't I mean, it's gone wildfire as a journey. Yeah. I mean, but I tell you what, it's powerful. When you journal, you write nine, you go back and you read what you've written. You know, I remember like, come back and think, Oh, can I really write that? That's pretty good. I didn't know was that smart? Just cover it at the time. You write it down just one thing a day. And I did a pretty much every day. I'll journal. The second thing I've got in the habit of doing for the last four or five years is I do some sort of breathing technique. Yeah. So I use what's called the Wim Hof breathing technique. Now, Wim Hof is known as The Iceman, Iceman. Yeah, he's out there from Holland or whatever. So, but I've been using that practice. And the reason to do it is because it helps with the sympathetic nervous system, you know, your nervous system sort of helps you to quiet directly from fight and flight, the rest recovery. Yeah. And that type of breathing can really help sort of break in and builds a bit of resistance and resilience as well in the body. So I do that one. Okay. So that's an interesting one. Yeah, that's, that is Yeah, yeah. So and now, the other thing I do, we're sort of privileged at home, we have a sauna. Yeah. So I use that again, in the same way. Most mornings, I'll do hot sauna call Shar. And again, that just builds a little bit of resilience in the body, and a bit of natural sort of tension in the body. But good, healthy tension. That make sense. Yeah. So some of those things I do. Those are sort of the practice and of course, exercise. Yeah, you got to exercise. So those are a few things I do. Pretty much every day. There's a few more, you cannot enter, but depends on what you want.
Nathan Benger 29:14
No, no, no, that's good. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting, because I think my personality type is like, Oh, this is a next thing. I'll do that. Yeah. And then yeah, I'll finish that. Now. I'll do something else. And I think it is good to just have a rhythm.
David Mckeown 29:31
Yeah. I think the thing I I find Rishi I was chatting with another leader X ray and we started doing something together. And I realised actually that I'm pretty consistent stuff. So when I start something, I don't know what to stop. I just keep going until until whatever. So that's why when I start something like that, for me the consistency to the key Yeah, cuz you started for a wee while and then stop. Yeah, that's the challenge now. I like this. As the changes were put out something for me about consistency. Well,
Nathan Benger 30:05
consistency compounds doesn't does. So you know, you you go out run in Yeah, for one week. Yeah. You just run for one week is not really going to have an effect. But you go out run in for a year soon builds up resume builds Oh, yeah. And so it's the same,
David Mckeown 30:24
shall I've I can just drop. I mean, we did mention prior, and you mentioned, you know, Bible reading below, we take that as we take that as normal. Yeah. But you will be surprised how many leaders and there's no judgement, or anything, you will discover there's a lot of leaders who don't even have that as a rhythm. Yeah. And if you're a leader in a Church, it's essential. Yeah. You've got to have the basic rhythms of Bible reading. Those sorts of things that really help, gentlemen, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's really good for you if you got any like that. And I said, you're not a big one for Yeah. So
Nathan Benger 31:01
so I've been able to build a rhythm. I'm not going to say I do it every single day. Because there might be the odd day where you miss but you know, in reading the Bible, and prayer, and wanna always try and start the day doing that good. I, for me, that's the that's one. That's my best time. Yeah. And I want to invest my best time into my relationship with God. Yeah. But also, I want to start my day, there. Yeah. So that then my day flows out of that. Rather than and, you know, and it can be different for other people, they might want to finish their their folks in but for me, I start my day. I'd probably like to get in the rhythm of Stein and end in the day. Yeah, like that. It's a good way to do that as well. But yeah, that might be a next step for me.
David Mckeown 31:55
I can be convenient. Next coaching company. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I was trying to think through a little bit as well. There is something powerful about having those rhythms, how and those, that consistency. And it's almost like I think once you build a little bit of a framework, yeah. Let's say here's the five things aren't going to do. Yep. Or that are essential to my well being. You don't have to be rigid with those. No, that's boring after Yeah. So I, like I have the basic stuff, but I'll swap it right. Yeah. I'm not gonna say like, every morning at this time, I'm going to read the Bible. I'm going to, like I am consistent, but I'll swap them. Yeah. Don't I mean, I'll say, Well, I just want to read the Bible this morning. I just want to pray or, you know, swap it up a bit. Yeah. Because if not, then it gets a bit boring as well. Yeah. I'll be reading and your last class long. Come on. Right. Last question. And a random show. Come on. I think it's gone. All right. It has been an experiment. It's been random. So let's see what happens. Football is
Nathan Benger 32:53
very rundown. The show is very, say something up right. Well, for our people are really t shirt for our American American listeners. Soccer, soccer, but but rarely, it's football.
David Mckeown 33:07
Probably for food.
Nathan Benger 33:10
Anyway, so yeah, I still play semi professional football here in England.
David Mckeown 33:18
And how old are you?
Nathan Benger 33:19
I'm 3535. So coming right to the end of my career you hanging on but they still value me? Yes.
David Mckeown 33:31
still paying so you're okay. They
Nathan Benger 33:33
have still still getting a little bit of money for playing. So which is always a bonus. Yeah. And there's a footballer in England. You may may have heard of him. Jamie Vardy played for England. I
David Mckeown 33:46
heard you mentioned him once or twice. But when the Premier
Nathan Benger 33:49
League with Leicester, I played with him for a full season at a club called Stocksbridge. Parks deals of which we've got a campus in campus. That so yeah, played together for a full season. And then Jamie Vardy went on to win the Premier League and here I am campus Pastor at IKON Church, and I would not swap it for the world.
David Mckeown 34:11
You're not better yet. No doubt. Oh, no. But you'll take some of those MonaVie senses? Well,
Nathan Benger 34:16
yes. If he wants to tie Church we definitely.
David Mckeown 34:20
So let's have football then. The thing for me like I like football, but only if it's like big games, you know, the World Cup Euro? Allah so so, like, helped me think a little bit before coming in waiting for you. I was on a call last week with a guy he's gonna be on the podcast, a guy called Simon the whole year. And he heads up a great Church in Sweden. He's going to be a guest with us on the podcast, but right at the end of our sort of getting to know your conversation, he said to me, he says, oh, Which team do you support? Because obviously I said I live near Manchester. Yeah. And that a 3 million bed because like I don't really support anything. Yeah. So I was trying to wrack my brain thinking what do I do? Yeah, and you know In your mind, I was trying to think of something really strong and macho, and I said, Ah, I like to. I like to walk in the forest. You know, when you said, I think this just doesn't sound right. Anyway, we'll say. So Simon, when he comes on the show,
Nathan Benger 35:18
I can talk to you about football.
David Mckeown 35:21
That's just not my forte. But listen to what gives a couple of lessons that leaders can learn from football. Oh, yeah. Your time.
Nathan Benger 35:28
So for me, you're only as good as a team.
David Mckeown 35:34
Yeah. Together definitely.
Nathan Benger 35:38
On the, so you're only as good as the attitude of the team. So I've played in teams that have really great players. I choose not been great. And then I've played in teams where I would say the players weren't as good. And yet we've done better because the attitude was better. Yeah, like, and so the attitude of the team is a is a key factor on that. It's not all about, you know, talent,
David Mckeown 36:07
and read across everything. Yeah, isn't it? And some of the big companies don't they say that, you know, we hire an artist for our cheered. And then rather than Yeah, gifting Yeah. And or something in that. I mean, it's good. If you have both like, that's what that's what every team wants. And every Church wants. Yeah. Gifting on attitude. Yeah, definitely choose one. Yeah. It was cool for Archer. Yeah. Because it's easier to put gifting in. Yeah, our trend people than it is to change. And
Nathan Benger 36:34
there's a quote in football that said Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. I like that. And so that's kind of like the phrase around that. And then the other thing coming back on to the communication, yeah, is you'll get your best out of the players. If you bring them on board. So communicate, bringing them on board. Are you going? Yeah. And even, you know, in football, soccer, but in most sports, team sports, there are people who are going to be on the substitutes bench. The ability to communicate with them and still have them on board is a real key, because you're going to need them in certain games in the season.
David Mckeown 37:13
For a good well, hey, we're done or random show. We've probably got some more equations in here. We'll keep those for our next random show. Really. We want some, some of yours are in the Senate. Like what are the questions that are thinking about? Yeah, because there's a lady of what was going to quit? Yeah,
Nathan Benger 37:30
it could be about personal rhythms like we've talked, right. It could be about Church life. It could be about leadership. It could even be off the back of one of our podcasts or even our resources, anything you've just got a question about, we'd love to answer those questions.
David Mckeown 37:44
Yeah. So Stanford today. Do
Nathan Benger 37:45
you want to help? Oh, yeah. So thank you. Thank you for listening. And if you're watching as well, the church explained podcast, it's been great to be together again. Like review, subscribe, wherever you're consuming this content makes a massive difference towards IKON Church IKON Open, and I'm gonna do that again. So where Dave goes, wrap up other again. IKON Church. So thanks for listening to the church explained podcast. It's been so great to be together. If you could like review, share, subscribe, wherever you're consuming. This content makes a massive difference to us at the church explained podcast, and we look forward to seeing you next time on the church explained podcast. We'll see you very soon.
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