CEP SEASON TWO EP:03 - WITH GUEST SIMON HOLST
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 03 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us in this show as we chat with Simon Holst, the Lead Pastor at Skövde Pingst (pentecostal church) in Sweden. Simon shares how the oldest Pentecostal church in Sweden has been transformed to reach a whole new generation. In addition, Simon shares some unique leadership insights to get you on the right track.
We hope you are inspired!
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
PLEASE NOTE THIS CONVERTED BY Ai so may not be perfect but it is useful 😀
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, welcome to church explained podcast a conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church.
David Mckeown 0:13
I'm Dave McKeown.
Nathan Benger 0:14
I'm Nathan Benger.
David Mckeown 0:15
And we're the host of this podcast. And today we're so privileged to have a brilliant guest where there's a guy called Simon Holst the whole way from Sweden. So welcome, Simon, great to have you with us.
Simon Holst 0:27
Thank you, thank you. It's an honour to be on the show and joining in from from Sweden.
David Mckeown 0:32
So we're just going to let people know a little bit about you, Simon, today, you're the lead Pastor of a thriving Pentecostal Church in Sweden. I chickened down from saying that I am sorry about that to all our listeners. But I'm sure Simon will help us as we go. So you're married to Caroline and father of Eton and pad. And you started preaching at the age of 15. And you've been serving as the Pastor since 2009. In the Church, and the same Church but doing different roles along the way, you've written the book as well, you are an author, on a grid sail, the world's best coach, looking at the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives, and you also run to podcast. That's pretty impressive.
Nathan Benger 1:18
Hey, we've only got one we've only got what we've we feel like and there's two of us.
David Mckeown 1:23
I reckon we should have four by the end of this. So.
Simon Holst 1:26
So the second one just started. So it might be have a short life, maybe.
David Mckeown 1:33
We'll see how that operates. So Simon, it is so good to have you here with us today. Can you tell our listeners just the proper pronunciation in Swedish of your Church name that will help us?
Simon Holst 1:45
That is one of the things
David Mckeown 1:47
Yeah, we hope that helps anybody who speaks with anyone else, it's probably lost on us.
Nathan Benger 1:52
I get I guess in the, in the, in the little comments at the bottom, where we put the show notes, we will link their Instagram we so people can find you. Yeah, we'll
David Mckeown 2:02
link it to Church in there. And all that sort of stuff. We
Simon Holst 2:06
are actually in the process of changing name of the Church. So perhaps if you come back in a year or so, okay, might be easier. So
David Mckeown 2:14
come on. So do we have a sneak preview of the name or is that not ready for the listeners yet?
Simon Holst 2:18
Ah, no, it's not not ready. It's behind closed doors.
David Mckeown 2:23
It's in the it's in? The volt isn't it isn't the volt Hey, so we're gonna get ready with some questions. Yeah. You've got a first question. Yeah.
Nathan Benger 2:30
Well, Simon, why don't you just let us know a little bit about your background and your leadership role? Hmm,
Simon Holst 2:37
yeah. Well, I, I grew up in a Christian family and my mother is minister, she has been preaching and travelling as an evangelist Bible teacher for like all my life. So when I was a kid, I used to go with her on weekends and holidays, and sitting in on the front row and learning a lot since I was just like a toddler or perhaps a few years older. So that's been my background growing up in different churches and, and my parents really have affected me a lot so and they will, they've always like, served God and, like, let the other things come along around that. So that's influenced me when I when I've decided also to go into ministry and follow that journey. And my leadership role now is as the lead Pastor in this Church, it's it's actually Swedish Sweden's oldest Pentecostal Church. Oh, so we have great history and a lot of legacy which is sometimes a heavy backpack but it's also I mean something you have to work with it and find find wins with it. But that's been part of our journey here to really transform this Church from a traditional middle sized Church that has been slowly diminishing into reaching the next generation finding a new voice for a new time. And I've been a big part of that journey the last like 15 years serving as a volunteer leader also for a few years but yeah, so we've just been been hearing this same Church I met my wife here when I moved here at age 16 and just been around ever since so yeah, that's a few parts I mean, you can go any direction but if you want to fill want to fill anything in so yeah,
David Mckeown 4:31
I think we will pick up one thing that we didn't include in the bio maybe Nathan was trying to leave right and that is the fact that you are a man united fan. Is that true?
Simon Holst 4:41
Yeah. Yeah, probably divided the listening the listeners into two or three or 15 groups are 20 or whatever Yeah, teams there are now so but I am I have been ever since I was like eight nine years old. We are a Swedish players. Yes. Bloom. Yes. Boom, kiss. Yeah. He was playing there in the 90s. So he was a he was my idol. So that's when I started to sharing on many nights back in the glory days.
Nathan Benger 5:10
Yeah, it wasn't it wasn't Freddy Youngberg at Arsenal then
Simon Holst 5:15
arsenal. No, that's that's like the big mean, from that time period Arsenal was really the arch enemy. So yeah, I have I have more hatred for Arsenal than Liverpool actually. So that's I mean
David Mckeown 5:29
well for for our listeners today i right beside me Nathan is an Arsenal fan. Yeah, that is correct. So somehow you guys well,
Simon Holst 5:38
yeah, we're pretty young. At least. Yeah, something. Yeah.
David Mckeown 5:42
So you got to work out your differences on the courthouse. Maybe, maybe that's what we're here for today. differences on the podcast? Well, Simon, Listen, tell us a little bit of bite. Your leadership, we've, we've heard a little bit about your roles. What's helped you grow as a leader obviously have had the right environment, you've talked about what else has helped you to grow as a leader?
Simon Holst 6:05
I think I think a big thing for me is one of the podcasts or the longest running podcast I have is called in English probably like leaned forward. And just that is really an expression of my leadership, attitude that I want to lead. I want to live, lean forward into all these different leaders context churches, so throughout my life, ever since I was actually a teenager, I've always pursued like, going, going on trips. Taking contact with people that I admire, I've been following along and put in a lot of time and a lot of money and a lot of effort into just coming close to other ministries under other leaders. And I travelled around the states for eight weeks. That's when I met one of your previous guests. sweb. Steve, Greg. So just visiting different churches and I went on different mission trips in different parts of the world. And all that this has really like been a driving me to get to learn more. And, and I learned the saying at Elevation Church that I that kind of frames this, they say that, eat the fish and throw the bones. So saying, like you can, you can learn from everyone, even the ones you don't agree with. And that's been really my my leadership style I want I want to learn, and I want to, I want to put myself in a position where I can learn from others. And I love what it says in Isaiah chapter 50, verse four, it says that God wakes my ear every year to hear as a disciple, sorry, that's my paraphrase. But to listen as a disciple, like not as a critic, not as a fan, not as I don't know, what else how else we can listen, but listen as a disciple, like I can learn something so that that's that's a big part of my leadership journey. And growing and, and learning more.
David Mckeown 8:19
So those those influencers and for you then having that hunger, I suppose, is one of the things that's driven you to seek out that help isn't that they go to different places, as you've said, you've invested, you've spent money. And there's something about when we, as some people use this phrase to have skin in the game. Really? That makes a big difference, doesn't it?
Simon Holst 8:38
Yeah. Yeah, sure. And really, to come close to the people. And when you come close to people that you admire, maybe from from from afar, you really see also like, everyone is just a person, a normal guy, a normal girl, and and they have their flaws, they have their, I mean, and they're pretty much the same as us, but in some way they have taken their ordinary lives and made it into something special. So that's also a big lesson that I mean, we're all we're all humans, but but God can do incredible things through through us. pretty ordinary guys. So
Nathan Benger 9:18
I love that. I love that phrase, eat the fish and throw away the bones. And yeah, you know, just thinking that's something that we can all begin to apply. And I love the I love the thought that you put yourself in proximity to these leaders. One of the things I'd love to ask you is what is like one thing you wish you would have avoided as a leader and why would you wish you avoided that one thing?
Simon Holst 9:50
I'm a pretty driven leader. And early on, I kinda it's been a big journey for me to become a more inclusive, more inclusive my leadership because I have, it's easy for me to come up with an idea to make a plan. And early on, I kind of just laid on the table. Okay, guys, listen, this is what we're going to do. And you're going to do that, and you're going to do that. And maybe it was a great idea. But no one felt ownership. So I stepped on a few few toes there early on. And and my wife told me early on, like, everyone thinks is a good idea. But but you're not letting anyone in on the on the decision on the plans. So that's been, that's been a journey for me. And I, if I could have avoided being like, that's straightforward. At the beginning, maybe? Yeah, that was something I've worked on.
Nathan Benger 10:48
Yeah. Is there anything practical or anything you've done? Just thinking of anyone? Like, I'm pretty, I'm pretty similar in that regard in terms of like, I'm quite driven, you know, internal processes. So I've got all the answers sorted. So I just need to tell you what to do. Is there anything that you know, like you've done practically? Or even in your thinking that has helped you to go, oh, no, I can't do that. I've got to include others.
Simon Holst 11:17
Yeah, a big, big thing is really to learn. I mean, you have all these different personality tests that can really help you. So that's been a big part of that journey. But also just to, to, I mean, oftentimes, I have a plan. But I just, maybe I just point is, okay, this is the topic, and what do you guys think? What do you think and just let them go around the table, and maybe a couple of ideas pop up. And a few days, they just say sounds cool. And then I can, like, oftentimes, like, lead it towards where I was heading. But the people really, just by being asked, What do you think? What's your thoughts on that, and really, including them, even though it's oftentimes like the same product or the same result. And another thing one guy told me that, that there, there are many ways to to come to the same goal. I mean, there are many roads and oftentimes, you know, I see this is the road it's going to go like this we're going to take a ride on the left and then we're there. But I mean, you could really take a left at the beginning and then go straight and then go rights and arrive at the same goal. So that's been one thing not be so fixed that at how I mean, the goals as a leader you're supposed to, to give vision and and I mean, have faith and and put up goals. But there are really so many ways to to to come to that goal. And as I also I want to point that out I don't only include others to make them feel included but But it all of the time, it becomes a better decision, it becomes a better plan. Because better products when you when you invite others into the boss's
David Mckeown 13:06
scribe. Yeah, great, great answer there. And and maybe this leads on to this next question, Ryan. What do you do to overcome weaknesses in your life? Or do you embrace them? I mean, that's a good question to think through. What do you do to overcome weaknesses? Or do you just say, well, it's part of who I am I'm just going to embrace them
Simon Holst 13:27
Yeah, I mean, that can be a big excuse right? To say like hey, it's it's the way I am Take it or leave it but in some regards, it is like this. I mean, especially in Sweden we have this I don't know if there's if there's an equal in English but it's called Young the log and it's like the the law of like, you don't think you are anything special? And don't don't stick out? I mean, you You're not better than they are and all that stuff that's really a big part of Swedish mentality not to like like the direct opposite of Americans sort of yeah, see Americans here you have sweets here on the other side. So and that can really affect us as a leader. So I think in some ways, you got to say like, This is who I am and I'm not going to just try to to be more like what would you say like more flats like but really Yeah, so I guess there's a mix there but also one thing to overcome our weaknesses is really also to embrace other people other leaders and and not be intimidated by them or like feel like if they're doing a great job like now, I have we are five people aren't on my pastors team here. And and I mean, when I hear like, one of these other Sunday's like people are saying, Oh, that was a wonderful sermon by one My fellow pastors share and not be intimidated by by that, but just see like I am, I am a better leader because I have great leaders around me. So one way to overcome our weaknesses is really has really been to see the value of the team. And that will will make up for my weaknesses as I can pursue my strengths, but also, like understand how my weaknesses look like. And yeah, I don't know, bit of a fluffy answer. But anyhow. Well, I
David Mckeown 15:34
think I think one of the things is coming through same energy shows around this idea of an including team or valuing team, which I think obviously for you that must be quite high on your agenda, not just as you say, to use them, but actually, they include them purposefully because they make you a better person. So there's something Yeah, I think there's something powerful and yeah, we can, we can all learn from listeners leaders. So I want us to think a little bit of if I can use this phrase, what's your kryptonite? And what's your superpower? If you were to think of that phrase? What's your kryptonite? The thing that
Nathan Benger 16:09
let me let me jump in. I thought we were talking to Superman at this point. We are We are super,
David Mckeown 16:14
super super Superman Simon, what is what's your kryptonite? What's the thing that weekend jet? And what's the thing that you would say as your superpower?
Simon Holst 16:25
What what week is me is to feel like I can't I can't make a change, like, boxed in like, Okay, this what you're going to do, you're going to do it this way. And there's no other options, that is my, that that just drains me of energy. Or perhaps to be in a room where, where nothing happens. And there's absolutely no movements, there's just like, everyone is comfortable with status quo, or even even worse. That's my that just, yeah, that will make me itch in every part of my every cell of my body. And my my superpower. I mean, we we've talked a little bit about butter already. But I think I have I'm very driven as a leader. And I can I can make away and find a way and invent away sort of sigh. I'd say that's to like, see, see the next step and move towards that. That goal? So that's probably something good. Yeah, I get
Nathan Benger 17:39
really good. Yeah. And you talked about invention there. And in in, in the start. You mentioned in the background, you took a traditional Church and reinvented it for new generation. So I wonder if you just dive into maybe some of the steps that you have taken one to reinvent yourself, but also to reinvent the Church for this generation.
Simon Holst 18:01
Hmm. I mean, the reinventing myself is really what I spoken about, and just meeting all these different pastors, people that I look up to, and, and try to implement things that I learned things that I say, things that I see, and sometimes learn what not to do, by by seeing others. So if we even think the Church has been I mean, that's been you should have, we should probably have a whole full series on on that. But it's really been a 15 year journey, and especially the last 10 years have been quite intense. And I think it all starts out of frustration. I remember so many years, when we me and my wife and like some friends would just go home from Church being frustrated at all things where and trying to change that frustration into vision. I mean, that's that's probably a common leadership thing. That's Yeah, real vision comes out of frustration or out of like, something is not right. And, and then really just rubbing like, one one step at a time. That's really the big thing because I mean, you have this as a leader if you see something bigger you see another future and you see this major gap between where you're at and where you want to be. And that gap can be spelled frustration. And and the way to overcome that gap isn't really to take like one giant leap. There. There's no such way or I haven't seen it, at least it's just like, the way to overcome that gap is really like taking one metre every, like weekend or Sunday or whatever is the like the benchmark for us, as Church leaders, like one metre this week, one metre, next week, one metre this week and when really, and just seeing okay, there's so much things left to do. But are we are we moving? Are we in progress? And, and there's been some a few times along the way where we said that like, if this doesn't come through, that's it's like we're handing in our towel or whatever you saying it's The Sweetest saying I don't know if that's what we say. But But then it came through and okay, there's lots to do. But hey, where were we six months ago, we've seen a lot of progress in Stan. So, I mean, that's really like that, the grinding of it. And and someone said that to change. To change the culture, in an idea driven organisation like, like, what we're into Church, we are not a business, we can't just tell everyone this was going to be if you don't like it, you'll get fired. They're there just because they want to be there. And to change the culture of an idea driven organisation takes like, seven, eight years or something, whatever they say. And that's really I can I can really agree on that. So anyone looking for a quick fix? You You better look for something else. But it's, it's really tough to change transformer Church, I'd say a rain for 10 years. So maybe five years along the way you feel like yes, we are really gotten somewhere. And the next five years you will, yeah. Hopefully come through.
Nathan Benger 21:27
I love that thought of taking frustration, and then turning it into vision. Because I think for many people, they'll just live in the frustration. But I love that, you know, even for somebody today who's listening, that might just be what they need to hear, like you're frustrated, turn that into some vision. Here's what we want to say. I think I think that's genius.
Simon Holst 21:55
And just to add to that, as as maybe a few listeners are those frustrated people also celebrate along the journey, like I said, because all the time like I'm I'm surrounded with leaders who always see like, ah, but this we got to do this, we got to this. But hey, we got to celebrate where we're at. So hey, look at where we are now. We are not where we want to be what we are, we are we have come a long way since the last three months, the last three years, and just celebrate everything you can celebrate along the way. Because that will really drive that vision to keep on like coming over that gap of frustration. So celebrate a lot along the way as well. Great.
David Mckeown 22:37
And that's quite powerful in itself really isn't that that idea of celebration, because I think so often as leaders, when we are driven, we're so ready to get to the next thing. You know, we want to push forward. Let's get there. And actually, there's something powerful about just taking time, taking space and celebrating what God's doing in our lives here. And now rather than what's yet to come in the future. So and don't
Simon Holst 23:05
just only look at the numbers, because it's always to look at the numbers and think like, okay, the if the numbers are wrong, we are doing we're doing bad. Yeah, right. We're doing right. But that's, I mean, that's not always the case. So I heard this Pastor earlier, McClellan say that he doesn't want numbers, like from every weekend, he asked for numbers once a month, because he's this control control guy, like most many of us are. But he says, Give me stories every week. And I want stories everywhere. Because I mean, we can have 50 people in the room. And we have like three salvation. So we have like four people coming into connect groups. And that's a great Sunday, or we have 100 people in the room and no one is doing any engagement into the into the Church. I mean, we can't. And that's something I've tried to implement. And especially during this pandemic, like I want to have every single story that you hear just a positive comment in the chat or an email or a conversation in the in the foyer or whatever. I want all the stories, so let's share them, share them, share them, because that really gives a lot of a lot of fuel for the whole for the whole Church.
David Mckeown 24:19
Yeah, for that. I wonder if we can just explore a little bit further around this reinvention of the transformation of the Church that's taking place because it may be that some leaders are listening that they're frustrated, as you've said Nathan, where they're out nurtured setting, maybe they're thinking what my Church is quite traditional, or there's lots of older generations in there. We could just gloss over this and I know one sense as you say, Simon it could be a whole nother podcast or a whole series of podcast. Just wondering if it's something we can give our listeners today. A run some of the some of the wins for you then as a as a leader in your setting. What's been some of the wins Over the last 15 years, you have thought, you know, that's the thing that's really helped us to take those next steps.
Simon Holst 25:06
I mean, you the real change in our Church, we were a few people who were who were working for change several years. And then the real change came when when when we had a new lead Pastor, the old lead Pastor that I used to serve under, he was a great guy, it was generous man. But he was never the one who was going to lead us towards where we wanted to get. So real change has to be led, right up front, like from the lead Pastor, and also, whatever leadership team you have, if you have a board, if you have elders, if you have pastors team was running the show, or whatever that like that leadership team, like, keep that keep that top level leadership team united, like as long as they are on board, as long as they are staying together, we can really go through any diversity because there is going to be, there's going to be a lot of battles, there's going to be a lot of conflicts along the way, people like losing what they what they were used to. So that's really been a big, big thing to keep the leadership intact. So we've been very conscious, especially when you come from a traditional Church background. And you have these Yeah, like we had, we had that we used to have a board of elders. So we were really conscious about making all the decisions there. And then we pushed it, like, Okay, we are we are on board on this. And then we would go and make it happen. But we made sure that every like, major, major new step were based in that leadership team and and that we kept the unity in that team. So that's really as long as that team is unified, you can really go through anything. And then also we started pretty much with our services, because that's like, that's what we first took control over, so to speak, and started to work with. And although we had a lot of like, maybe conflicts under the surface, we always kept like Sunday, holy or Sunday intact and Sunday full of faith. And that's really like the biggest way I think for a Church to drive culture is through our Sunday gatherings, whatever they're called. So those were two big steps for us. And then we took like all the structure things and all organisation things they came at the end. So the last thing was the we had new, what do you call them? Your your like founding documents, what are you bylaws? Yeah, that was like the last thing for our big change. And now we are trying to live in continual change. Now, as I said earlier on, we are on the brink of change the name of the Church, as we hope that our journey won't be contained to this specific building in a specific place, but it will be able to bless others and then it's kind of we are a bit restrained right now by our name that is, like connected so closely to one place. So now we tried to live in that continual growth and and and we had this great Pastor, Norwegian Pastor who wrote the book that has helped us a lot. And he said that that you you, you rather want to have 10% of us voluntarily voluntary voluntary change every year, then 100%. On voluntarily transformation every 10th year. Did I come through my Yeah, yes, right. Translate so so. But a lot of churches hasn't lived in that 10% change every year. So they need 100% transformation. And that is tough. And that that hurts. And that that takes a lot of labour. But once you have done that, let's make sure to live that 10% of voluntary change every year. So we don't end up with the next generation coming and crashing in the door. When they think we are too old and too. Too boring or whatever. Yeah.
Nathan Benger 29:24
Now that's really good and really helpful. To many people, and many people listening, think some of those things, things that people can take away and just begin to make some changes. I wonder if you could just ask the question around. Obviously the Church scene in Europe and what what what does that look like? What does it look like in Sweden for you guys? Obviously, are off the back and even during this season that we've been in, what what does that look like? Is it moving forward? Is it or is it just like kindness survive and in survival mode?
Simon Holst 30:04
I can't really speak for Europe, I don't have that kind of insights. But as of Sweden, I mean, it's, it's really, I feel like the division is bigger and bigger you have you have, we have a lot we have, we have a few of at least good examples of thriving churches, even through the pandemic, that are popping up here and there. But also, there are so many churches are just like, yeah, sticking around, or starting to diminishing, we just had a new Church report. And I mean, like, I don't know, 75% of all the churches are either just standing still or diminishing, or like in freefall. And we have like, maybe 20%, that are actually growing. And we have like, 5% that are really growing, or whatever. Just quickly, like that, so but it's really, and I think, I think hopefully, this can lead to a lot of churches, smaller churches, like connecting their, their car to a bigger train, so to speak. Like, I think that is what a lot of churches need to do coming out of this pandemic. And hopefully, this has, I mean, the pandemic has really just quick and thinks up like processes that would have taken five years took one year and one year took one month or whatever. So hopefully, that sense of, of urgency is something that we will see more churches, like coming to realisation of how things are, and realising we need to do something now we can't wait five years or 10 years. So it's really it's really a big mix. But I'm hopeful and, and I think we need we need large, like centres, like Yeah, Antioch churches that are sending and really becoming hubs or centres for that region. Because we need thriving churches all around, it can't just be in London, and Stockholm or whatever. We need them all around. I mean, there's so many people, our city has, like 55,000 people. And in the in the 45 minutes range, we have maybe a quarter million. So I mean, and we are the only Church in this area that are doing what we are doing. Not like that's the only thing to do. But you get what I mean. So really need I, I believe we we really need those regional centres all around, and I'm starting to see that happening in Sweden. And I think that your Church is probably an example for that in your area, is trying to become a hub and to get those synergy effects. Not not trying to struggle on our on our own too much.
David Mckeown 32:57
Yeah, great, great answer that and I think just picking up on this idea of churches don't need to struggle on their own. I think that's the big thing of churches are listening, and leaders are listening and they are struggling. Like sometimes you just got to get over yourself, and actually go on Church and other churches a bit further down the road than you are, and maybe even connect with them, as you said, Simon, you know, a sense of having a hub in a setting that can be much stronger for the Church, you know, rather than individual smaller churches just struggling along I think there's something powerful in that as
Nathan Benger 33:32
well. Definitely. Yeah.
David Mckeown 33:35
So let's look at a couple more questions. Before we wrap up today. It's been great to have you on the show. And one of the questions I have for you, and you've touched on it a little bit. But I suppose I want to be a bit nosy if I can use that phrase in English. And I want to be a bit more specific to find out who has been your sort of inspiration. He's inspired you as a leader on why my we're not looking for to be general, we want you to be specific nem NIMS, the software and that will help us and you may lose some friends as well. Sorry about that. Come on. Let's find out. Who's been your inspiration and why you mentioned your mother. Anyone else?
Simon Holst 34:15
Yeah, yeah, my mother and my father, actually, because my mother is the preacher and my father is like the inventor. He's like this crazy guy who's had like 15 different jobs or whatever. So he's really helped me to get that sense of, hey, you can do whatever you set out to do sort of, and just being a bit personal. I mean, I mean, sweat butts actually, like Steven Webb in elevation has been a great great friend of me and and really, this is an annoying guy. I mean, he he's like scratching and he's like, pointing out things and and he he forces you to grow so that they it's been a great friend, and I'm a good friend also with that The lead Pastor of Hillsong, Sweden and Raz Nielsen. He's, yeah, he like prophesied over me when I was like that back then when I was like 1516 years old, I've been following along that journey. So those him and also the team around him has been a great source of help for me. And I mean, of course, there's so many preachers that you've listened to, and all that stuff. Probably. Those are a few people that just come to my mind as we speak. Grant,
Nathan Benger 35:35
it's great. We love to finish with this one final question, which is this? What is the one question that no one is asking you that you wish they would? And what would be your answer to that question?
Simon Holst 35:49
Yeah, that's a, that's a great question. And I think it's kind of hard. But one thing I was thinking about is just like, get what's the most important thing in ministry? Like, what's, what's the most important thing, and I mean, we can talk about all these leadership models, and we can talk about all these methods, and you can the five ways to grow your following on social media, whatever. But to me, and that's something that Andre, as Nielsen has so often pointed out, like, the most important thing is that, that, you know, you're calling like, God's calling on your life. Because that's what that's the only thing you can fall back on when when the critics start rising, and maybe you question yourself, but really, if you know, I'm called by God, and to be be firm on that, and that's all that's really, if you if you set out to plan a Church, you're set out to transform a Church, whatever, you need to know that you're called to do that. And as long as you know that, hey, they can throw whatever rotten tomatoes that you that they want, but But that's really something and also God's anointing. I mean, I'm this guy, guy, I want to learn everything that I can learn, and I want to be a good leader and all that stuff. But really, if if God doesn't add his anointing, his power, we're really just like, good communicators, or good leadership managers or whatever. So God's calling and God's anointing, I'd say is the things that sticks out if you want to last in ministry, coming from a 33 year old guy, but anyhow,
David Mckeown 37:27
hey, 3033 is a goodie.
Nathan Benger 37:30
Yeah, very good. Well, it's been great to have Simon on the podcast today, Simon, if people want to kind of follow you find you, what's the best way for them to do that?
Simon Holst 37:42
I guess for the English listeners, it's might be easiest to find me on Instagram. And that's like at Simon underscore online. Host H O LST. So that's probably his way I have a website and all these podcasts, but that's in Swedish. So I don't know if that makes any sense. But yeah, that's a good way to start.
Nathan Benger 38:04
Great. So people get connected with Simon on Instagram. And it's been so good to chat around leadership and Church reinvention and all of that and it's been so good to be together on the church explained podcast. Let me just mention the show notes will be available for you. And you can also find more resources at IKON dot Church forward slash open but that's been it for church explained podcast please rate review, subscribe wherever you're consuming this content, and we look forward to seeing you next time on the Church explained podcast
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
