CEP SEASON TWO EP:04 - WITH GUEST PETER WAN
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 04 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us for part one of two as we chat with Peter Wan, the Lead Pastor at The Hope Church in Taiwan. Peter shares the incredible story of getting out of depression and what brought him to faith. He also shares critical lessons from his leadership journey as he planted a church in Taipei one year before the pandemic hit.
Look out for part two of the show in two weeks time when you will hear Peter explaining how they have built a team with many young leaders who did not come from a Christian background. He also shares why they grew during the last two years instead of closing as many other new churches did in this season.
You will love this!
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
PLEASE NOTE THIS CONVERTED BY Ai so may not be perfect but it is useful 😀
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, welcome to the church explained podcast a conversation degree, your leadership and build your Church. On today's show, we've got an amazing guest, a guy called Peter Wan, who heads up a Church in Taiwan. And you're gonna hear part one of the show today as he shares some of his story and some of his leadership challenges over the last way we hope you will enjoy.
David Mckeown 0:30
Hi, I'm Dave. And
Nathan Benger 0:31
I'm Nathan. And we are your hosts on the church explained podcast. Today we are joined on the podcast with Peter one who is the founder and lead Pastor of the hope, a young, vibrant Church based in Taipei, Taiwan. He was raised in Canada and moved to Taiwan start a Church when he saw the spiritual need. Passionate believes that people are worth it. And the Church should do everything we can to reach people with the gospel of Jesus, He dreams of building a Church that says as the cultural centre of the city, and he also holds a Master of Divinity degree from Oral Roberts University. That's quite a lot me.
Peter Wan 1:17
I struggle hard to do come up with all that stuff. But that's about it. That's about all I've done.
Nathan Benger 1:25
Plus, you've got a wife called Peggy and two children Eliana and Raphael, and they currently live in Taipei in Taiwan. Peter, it's amazing to have you on the podcast.
Unknown Speaker 1:36
Thank you so much for having me. This is the first time I've ever been on somebody else's podcast. So this is the first time for me. We have our own podcast. But I've never been a guest on somebody else's podcast. So thank you so much for this opportunity just to you know, have me here today.
David Mckeown 1:56
Yeah, it was such a privilege, as Nathan said, just to connect different parts of the world. And your course, we've said already in Taipei in Taiwan. Have we said that? Right? Is that good pronunciation?
Unknown Speaker 2:09
No, that's right. That's perfect. It's Taiwan, not Highland. Some somebody get the to mix up, but a
David Mckeown 2:16
different different places completely. We don't want to make the mistake there. Do we? Know? Hey, so Peter, tell us a little bit about your background, and your family location, all that sort of stuff. It'd be great just to hear something of your story. And I know when we chatted offline. Last time, you shared something about your story, and I think it'd be good. Just to hear about that today. For our listeners, share a little bit about your story, your background, and that'll help us get really started today. Well, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 2:46
sure, um, well, I'm a Pastor, but I actually didn't grow up in a Christian family, my, my family was, was was not really religious or anything. And growing up, we, we didn't really have a religion, but, but my mom will read Bible stories to us. And not because she believed it, but she just wanted us to go to sleep at night. So she will read them as bedtime stories. And so I remember listening to Bible stories adamantly Noah's ark, and just kind of believing that these were just fantasies, right. And so it wasn't until junior high that a friend of mine invited me to, to Church for his church's Christmas event. And so when he called me invited me to Church, I actually hung up on him because I was watching TV at the time, didn't want to go, but my mom made me go. And so I went to Church, and, and became a Christian. But at that time, it was just more of an intellectual kind of like, okay, if there is a God, this could be this makes more sense than what I was seeing around me, like the other religious practices that my other family members will be engaged in. So I thought, Oh, God, I believe this but, but it wasn't really real. To me, it was just more like a like a, like intellectual type of thing. So it wasn't until high school. So I was in Canada at the time that I started having depression. So I, I was playing rugby at the time playing football and, and just slowly, I just felt myself losing Oh, passion to to do anything, just wanted to stay in my room. I was in a boarding school just wanted to say my room. Didn't want to go out. So told my parents about this. They got kind of worried. So I started seeing a psychiatrist just every week, and, and, and it got so bad to a point where so I was on medication, but it got so bad to a point where one time I wrote an email to my dad. My dad was in Taiwan at the time, but when the email from my dad, just telling him I don't feel like I want to go on living. I don't feel like there's any point in living I hate myself, I hate other people, I wish I will be dead. I wish everybody will be dead. And so, so he got really worried, right, as you can imagine, so he forwarded the email to my psychiatrist. So the next time I went to go see my psychiatrist, he pull up the email, and he asked me, Peter, did you write this? And so I took a look at it. And I thought, What did you get this? And he said, your dad's really worried about you. So he forward, forwarded the email to me so. So I say, Yes, I did. And why I said that he, he told me, he says, according to Canadian law at time, because you've, you've made a threat to your own life, and, you know, you consider a threat, I guess a suicide threat so we can let you leave the hospital. We have to keep you in here for at least a few things. And and so I was freaking out because my after he said, I don't know if they rehearse this or rather, he said, I don't know if he has a red button on his desk.
Unknown Speaker 6:07
God Gods show up at the door. And he basically told me, we could do this the easy way or the hard way. Now, this was the late 90s. Right. So this is this is when there was only school shootings in North America. And I think people very worried about these kids, you know, depressed kids actually now on on their anger. So So I understand why they went to that extent, to do what Okay, so. So basically, the two security guards escorted me to this to this room. And now this room has three walls, the fourth wall is a glass. So the nurse and the doctors can see inside what's happening. And, and there's only one bed in the middle of the room. Now, I wasn't a straight jacket or anything like that. But uh, but but I was locked in that room. And and, and I was only allowed to come out for like, you know, a couple of hours a day for some exercise to have to go back in. And I remember, it was either the first night or the second, I can't remember exactly which night it was, but was middle of the night. And I was I was asleep on the bed. And all of a sudden I woke up and, and I felt this presence in this piece of God in the room that I've never felt before. Because I've been to Church. So I've heard Christians talk about a piece that's beyond understanding. And so I felt on this, this could be it. And so I'm laying on the bed, and I had this, this voice that just kept coming to my heart that says everything's gonna be okay. And, and so. And so that night, it was really the first time that I had an encounter with God. And so the next morning, next morning, I woke up, and it just felt like things were different. And I felt, you know, I feel like now, the thing about depression is I think a lot of times people think depression is just you feeling really sad, but it's actually not just feeling sad. It's you don't feel anything. So that was the first time in a long time to actually feel something I'm still alive. So, so actually told my mom, what happened, she can just me the next day. And then my mom asked me, I What time did this happen? I told her about the time. And she said either Did you know that? It was around that time that I actually went to the I call the pastors and people at the Church that you are going to and ask them to pray for you. And, and so that's when I knew it was just got into being at that moment. So that was really the first time that I said, Okay, God, I'm gonna give my life to you, I think you're not just reopen, you're relevant. Like I like, like, there's more to this Christianity than just intellectual understanding of the Bible. And, and so I decided right then and there to really give my life to Jesus. And that changed everything. For me.
Nathan Benger 8:50
That's amazing. That's such an incredible story. So let a little question. So how did you come to leading the Church that you're leading now? You know, following on from that story, how did you come to that place of leading the Church that you're leading now?
Unknown Speaker 9:06
That's a good question. Because when I became a Christian, I, I love Jesus, but I did not like the Church. You know, you kinda like, you know, like, I like God, but like, I just kind of felt like Church was boring and, and just didn't feel like I really fit it in the Church. I didn't grew up in a Church and, and, and, and so when I was so after I got saved, I, I was always applying for university. And, and when I was doing that guy started to speak to me about going to ministry, but I said no, right because I didn't want to get into any kinds of I just didn't want to work in Church. And, and it was in a in a in the summer this summer, right people I went into university I was a friend of mine invited me to a conference like a Christian conference when these you know rallies then it's always at the back of the stadium because I didn't really want to listen to what was free preach. But that night that the Pastor, the preacher, he said, he said on stage, he said, God is calling you guys to serve Him. And there are some of you, you've been saying no. And to night, you have to sit, yes. Now, he wasn't talking about full time ministry. But he was just talking about serving God. And I always had the back of the stadium, and all of a sudden, I started crying. I don't know why. And it was just one of those moments, I couldn't explain. But the next thing I knew, I was at the front of the stage, here streaming down my, you know, my cheeks, and I said to God, I said, Jesus, if you want me to serve you, and I would do it, because you redeemed my life, like I if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't be here today, like, I will still be depressed, I might still be in the hospital. So if you call me, I'll do it. And so that's when I responded. But, um, but I didn't know where to go. Right. So I was in Canada at the time, but so one night, I will just some, I'm on my on youtube. And, and I watched this video about Taiwan. So I was born in Taiwan, but I never went never really attended school in Taiwan. So I never learned about Taiwanese history, or the people of Taiwan, the land of Taiwan. And, but when I was watching that video was talking about payment history. And as I was watching this, I started to cry. And so all the story has loved me crying a lot. But I started to weep. And it was one of those. Another one of those instance where I didn't understand why I was crying. And because why was when the the documentary was not like, it was not emotionally moving was made by the government, it was just one of those like, it, just stating the facts of what happened. Yeah. And so I went to the school library, I just type in Taiwan. And, and I just checked out every book I can get on Taiwan. And I started reading them in my, in my own room, I felt and then that's when I felt this urge to go back to Taiwan in the future to start a Church. And so I was in university at the time. So I finished off University, went to seminary in the US. And then the month I graduated from seminary, moved, moved to Taiwan. Wow.
David Mckeown 12:23
Pretty amazing story. And as you say, Peter, a lot of crying in there. I probably cried. I think I would be I would be a bit frightened to maybe watch a movie with you. Because I rack in there maybe tears away through No, but we're joking once but pretty amazing story Hi, God can get hold of our lives and speak into our lives. And I guess there's probably lots of leaders who would be listening to this. And probably thinking of Hi, God called them, yeah, what God did in their life. And I know, for myself, like similar story, just a sense of God's calling me the first time I was in Church, really, when I became a Christian, sim experience tears coming down my eyes, just knowing that for the first time God was real, and that there's something something powerful is nobody, God can get hold of our lives. So you got that patient for Taiwan you hadn't been? Then the journey then kicks off and tell us a wee bit more about thought then hike how you got to Taiwan, starting to Church, and a little bit about your leadership as well. That'd be great for our listeners to hear, wouldn't it? Yeah. Okay.
Unknown Speaker 13:31
Yeah, I think, Well, I think those moments of encounter with God is really important. Because, because leadership can be tough, and during the Church can be tough. And so you always want to go back to these core stories of how you started. And just to remember the why of why you're doing this. And so when I moved back to Taiwan, this is in 2009. I, at that time, I, I didn't know anybody, I had saved up some money. So I just thought, you know what, I will just, I'll just start, I just, I just start preaching people to work back and find them. So I would go to Starbucks, and now we just preach to, you know, I would just sit down with wherever it's at the coffee shop, and just sure Jesus and and there were a few times I will get kicked out because they thought I was sell something and, and I will go to like school campuses, I would just go anywhere. And, and, and eventually, somebody introduced me to a Pastor here in Taiwan. And, and so I started talking to him about what I was doing in Taiwan. I actually I didn't really know what I was doing. I just knew I wanted to start a Church. But I didn't know how I didn't know anybody. I was 26 at the time. And you know, and so didn't know didn't know anybody didn't have any knowledge of you know what the Church Singh was like in Taiwan. And he really took me under his wing and and just Pastor John and he just taught me a lot is this. He worked at the largest Church in Taiwan. His father was really, the was the senior Pastor of the Church. And so he asked me, Do you want to come and, you know, start an international ministry within this big mega Church? So I thought, yeah, not really, because I wanted to come back to Taiwan to reach the power knees, or I didn't want to start an international ministry to reach the expats in Taiwan, but, but there was something about him that that draw me to him, just his genuineness, and his, his, just his leadership. So I thought, You know what, I'll go. So I did. And, and so, so we started, I started the English ministry, the International ministry within that Church. And so we're just a small fraction, because the Church is like, 12,000 people. And then we started with just, like, 10 people praying every Sunday, like 10 English speakers, and that kind of grew from that to about 700 people in about six, seven years. And, and, and from that group of people that 700 people, there were a couple 100, a few 100 of them, who are not exactly native English speakers, so just how many people who came? And so so eventually has passage gone. You know, I said, you know, I came back to Taiwan really wanted to play the Church, when you think I can do that. Every year, he would tell me no. Other time, you're not ready. Yeah. And so I remember what ASK HIM every year, we say no. And when one year, I was talking to him, I said, you know, that, that you might have to plant a Church, when you think I can do that. And he says, I think you're ready. And that shocked me, because sometimes you ask, you know, your leader all these years to do something? He says, No, you don't think it's ever going to come? Right? And so so I was kinda like, Oh, really? Did you say yes. And he says, yeah, he says, Actually, I talked to the senior Pastor of the Church about, you know, this dream that you have, for many years now. And he actually really wants to help you get this started. So he says, Why don't you take all these Chinese speakers within that international ministry, that English ministry and plant the Church, and, and this and get this, this is what he said, he says, the senior Pastor says, pick as many people who wants to go play in this Church, just tell the congregation that mission and see who wants to go. And that is, that is generosity, that I've never seen any, you know, Church leadership that I've had, I came into contact with. And so, so out of that couple 100 people, we started this Church of the hope. And, and so we started in three years ago, and it's grown from a couple 100 people to we have about 15 1500 people meeting together on Sundays, right now. And but really, I think we started well, we started strong because of that initial seed from this Church ratified that I was a part of. So they really blessed us with that.
Nathan Benger 18:17
Now, that's amazing. And even, I was just thinking, as a young leader, you go in and you're asking, When can I start the Church? You get in there knows, but you're still you know, you're still doing what, you know, what you've been asked to do what you've been called to do, as well. And I think I think that's even a key even, you know, there might be some young leaders who are listening to this and just to be obedient in seasons and, you know, to follow follow people and to trust to trust that they've, that they're not trying to hold you back. But actually, they have the best interests for you. And, you know, you mentioned that was a big thing for you to grow as a leader. But what are some of the things that you wish you'd had had avoided as a leader and why do you think you would want to avoid them?
Unknown Speaker 19:06
Well, that's good, I think. Well, I mean, I'm still a young leader. Right. So I think there's still I'm only 38 right now. So I think there's still a lot I think, I'm learning to avoid right now. But, but one of the things that I I had to learn early on was, which I didn't understand early on, was that leadership really is not about the leader. leadership is about the people that you're leading. And I think something it's very easy to make leadership about the leader because the word isn't, you know, the word leader isn't leadership, but but I think there was a couple years ago that God you know, really helped me switch my focus into, into thinking about it's not about me, but about the people that lead and and one of the thing that one of the resources that really helped me do that was some of the resources by an author in in America called Donald Miller. And we talk about this idea that we're not that you were with a guy. Yeah. And I remember coming across this book now, it wasn't like a Church, Christian book or anything but, but just that idea of we're not the we're not the heroes, which is the guy. And wherever God has placed in my life Well, under my leadership, they're the real heroes. And my job is to actually empower them. Now that really revolution lies the way I would do ministry and think about, you know, what, what my job description is. And so I thought, I, you know, when I was younger, I thought it was about me become the best possible version of myself. And I began to understand that a great leader is only a great leader, because he, he led a great team, right? Like, it's not really about the person, like if you can lead a great team, if you can empower a great team. That's what makes you a great leader. It's, there's no such thing as a great leader apart from the team, apart from the people that and so that really helped me shift my focus. And so I went in still, to this day, I will share this with my leaders all the time, too. I said, we're not the heroes. We're just the guide. It's kind of like Nike, right? Like, I think the thing that revolutionised the way Nike sell athletic shoes was that before that, people were talking about how amazing that shoe is. But Nike, when they put up the ad, it wasn't about the shoe was about the athlete, because the shoe is there to serve the athlete. So all these Nike ads will be about how, what the shoe does, what the equipment does for the thing. And I think that's kind of what something that I had to learn in many heartbreaks, but very Bible lessons, and it's been serving me well learning that lesson.
David Mckeown 21:57
Yeah, I think I think that's fantastic. Yeah. Great, great insights there, I think for a lot of leaders who are listening today, because often leaders can get caught up with the fact that they think it is about them, rather than about serving people. And you were saying there, Peter, some painful moments in there for you. If you were to describe that. How long was that journey of transformation? Between?
Unknown Speaker 22:25
I think, I think it was, it was when I reach 30. So 26 started, you know, that international ministry, and it grew pretty fast. So, you know, like, so I was 26 The Church was in the ministry was growing. And when the ministry is growing, you think it's all about you, you think it's all about, it's because the way I preach, it's about the way I do this and that. And then when I reached it, I remember heading into my 30s, praying to God, and thinking, you know, while Jesus started his real ministry when He was 13 years old, and so I felt okay, I'm going to start my real ministry, that's when the new season of anointing, you know, that's going to come upon me and I'm going to be able to go to the next level. And, and, and I remember when I was on my 30th birthday, I was my, my, the ministry, like a lot of people I was leaving, they threw me a surprise party, a birthday party. So I walk into a restaurant, I thought what just could be me and couple of guys having a meal. And, and there was like, half the Church was there. Right? So So I was surprised, so well chatting while having fun. And, and I noticed one of the one of the girls were sitting by herself, and she just had this sad face. So I thought, what's going on? So I went over and asked her what's going on. And she now I knew she had broken up with a boyfriend like a couple months ago. So I knew that so. So but then when I talked to her I, she told me that her ex boyfriend just got into a relationship with another girl that she knows that we both know. And so she was so angry at her that she wanted to. She was thinking about doing all these kinds of new crazy things like revenge. So there I was, on my 30th surprise for the party, sitting there at a table trying to talk this person out of doing something stupid. And I'm talking to her right and in my mind is his voice that says, Come on, man. This is my birthday party. Why are you you know, ruining my birthday party. This is supposed to be by me. It was here to celebrate me. And then I just felt the voice of God setting. It's not about you. And that's how you're going to leave for the rest of your life. If you can learn this lesson, it's not about you. And you pray you want something new. You want a new season of breakthroughs and anointing what you which 30 and and This is it. If you can learn the lesson that leadership is not about you, but serving the people around you, that you will be a great leader. And so that was that moment that I, you know, when the Holy Spirit spoke to me in my heights that helped me understand that. And then a couple years later, I came across that book by Donald Miller and it all kind of just came together. And yeah,
David Mckeown 25:25
yeah, great, great, great book really, isn't it? and highly recommend. I think it's called Story Braun. Doesn't it the book? Yes, sir. That's right. Yes. Story bronze. So if you haven't read it, do read it as you say, it's not necessarily a leadership book, but it is lots of leadership lessons in there. I think it's about building websites actually. But some great lessons in there is no bite, you know, high, high way to serve others and make them the hero of the story really. So that's fantastic.
Unknown Speaker 25:53
It's a marketing book. Yeah. It's it's it's a it's a but you know, it's about message. I think our life is a message your leadership is a message everything we do carry that message. So we have to ask ourselves, what's the message we want people to to walk away with having encountered us,
Nathan Benger 26:12
so Well, that's been it for this episode of The church explained podcast. It's been great to have this part one with Pier One. And we hope you join us for part two. That will be coming out very soon. Wherever you're consuming this content, please rate review and subscribe and share it with someone you know, he will bless and we look forward to seeing you on the church explained podcast the next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
