CEP SEASON TWO EP:12 - WITH GUEST MAKOTO FUJIMURA
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 12 of the Church Explained Podcast.
A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
In this episode, we are joined by Makoto Fujimura, an artist, author, and creator. Makoto is the founder of the International Arts Movement and the Fujimura Institute and co-founder of the Kintsugi Academy.
We discuss some big ideas around Slow Art, The Kintsugi Principle and what he callsPlumbing Theology.
This is part one of our conversation.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
David Mckeown 0:00
Hi, I'm David Jones. I am the host of the church explained podcast. And today we're so excited, we've got an amazing guest where there's a guy by the name of Michael Tucci mirror, and he is an artist, a creator, and an author.
David Mckeown 0:21
And let me just say something about Marco today. And we're gonna find out a little bit more about Michael as we go through the podcast. But Mark was the founder of the International Arts Movement, and the future mirror Institute, and the co founder of the contiguity. Academy. And you've written two books that I'm aware of, but it could be another one I know you've written culture. And the one on culture, is that correct?
Makoto Fujimura 0:43
Yeah, culture, care and plus faith theology are making which is my new book. And then I also wrote a book called silence and beauty, which has to do with the book silence by shoots again, though, and Martin Scorsese's film sounds
David Mckeown 0:59
very good, I haven't come across that one. I've come across the other two. And obviously, we want to talk today about unfair theology of making today in the podcast. So, so good to have you with us. And thanks for joining us today. So be curious to find out a little bit about yourself, we always like to ask our guests a little bit about their background, what they do and their role in life as well. So I wonder if you could just share with our listeners today.
Makoto Fujimura 1:26
Sure. I was born in Boston, in the United States. My father is a fairly well known scientist, and he was at MIT when I was born, doing his work with Noam Chomsky. So he brought the generative grammar theory into Japan, Tokyo University, and I spent my childhood years there, and came back to the United States and middle school. And I went to university in United States and then went back to Japan for graduate studies, in The Hunger Games, Japanese style paintings. And I became immersed in this ancient craft of painting, which harkens back to the 15th century and, and then my purpose for doing that, though, was to apply the principles into contemporary art. So I returned to us in New York area, and I began to exhibit in the 90s as an artist here.
David Mckeown 2:39
Fantastic. And family, do you have family?
Makoto Fujimura 2:43
Yes, I am married, and I have three children from my previous marriage. So that is a journey that I speak about often, but I live here with my wife in Princeton, New Jersey now.
David Mckeown 3:02
So Michael, I was just thinking through this idea of high the work of artists and the work of public speakers, preachers, communicators, hi, there's possibly a connection there. As they're creating something. Could you speak into that? From your experience?
Makoto Fujimura 3:18
Yeah, absolutely. When you study the Bible, the first thing you notice is that God created. And so God is the artist, I make a claim in the book, that God may be the only true artist, being able to create something out of not x, Nero or nothing. And therefore, all of scriptures, from the Old Testament, the New Testament is filled with how we come to know this creator, the maker, and how God the artists invites his foreign creatures to participate in this project or new new creation. And of course, in order to do that, you have to have the redemptive journey, presence of Jesus in our lives and his His Atonement and sacrifice and the resurrection. But, but it also points to this new creation that God is inviting us into. So therefore, preaching or any kind of our effort to worship is inherently a creative act in accordance to what this artists great artist is inviting us to into. So whether it be worship, whether it be service of Mercy, creating beauty in any form, not just what I do as an artist, but it could be a chef making an omelette on someone gardening to grow, things go grow tulip. You know, those are all creative activities that connects us to each other and ultimately, through the Spirit, we can be connected to the Creator.
David Mckeown 5:16
Yeah, I love that idea that we're connected to the Creator. And and of course, this idea that God is the ultimate artist above all resonate with with all his created. Do you think them for people listening? Do you think? Would you say that that all people have the ability to create and should be thinking of doing that?
Makoto Fujimura 5:37
Yeah, we are created to be creative moment, we are conceived, I believe that God has instituted this enormous potential in us now. circumstances could prevent us from reaching that potential. And we hope we can do the best we can to give that potential, the possibility of that reality to manifest in the fullest sense in everybody's life. And, to me, the calling of a Christian Church is for flourishing of all people and all creatures. You know, not not just so that we can be, you know, restored, in a sense to have a relationship with God. But God, again, as an artist, is looking at us as God's artwork, ultimate artwork. And that includes all the things that happen that we wrestle against, and we struggle through. And yet God is sovereign, and in control of that, as a master, or as conductor. He is weaving something very beautiful in us, despite the what the world looks like right now. So everybody is involved in that project.
David Mckeown 7:15
And despite despite the chaos, we all have something that we can share and something we can bring. I don't know, one of the one of the ideas you mentioned in your book is this, this, this sort of concept around the difference between making and using. And that really intrigued me because I think often we we do make things to us more than just making them for something bigger. I wonder if you could maybe speak into that as well, that would just be fantastic.
Makoto Fujimura 7:47
I call it a plumbing theology. And a lot of teaching that I hear tends to be about, you know, redemption of Christ, which is at the heart of the gospel. Surely it is, it is one of the most important realities for us to understand that Jesus, have given us access to this reality of God, God himself, and, and yet, the redemptive act, doesn't end at the cross or doesn't end at the Resurrection. The Resurrection is the inauguration of new creation. And therefore, we fallen creatures now redeemed by God is now supposed to play a major role in ushering in this new creation, in the now and in the future. And so we, we tend to truncate. And what I mean by plumbing theology is, you know, we are often given tools to use Church programme programmes, and we are supposed to fix things we're supposed to fix our marriages were supposed to fix, society was supposed to fix our sinfulness. And those are that bad things. But we tend to not hear why it is that we're doing the fixing. So we get all these tools at Church and we go home and use it to fix our plumbing. And it works and we invite our neighbours to come and, you know, help them to learn this new tool, but very rarely you hear a sermon about why we are, you know, fixing the broken pipe. So what is going through the pipes, and what is the result of us finding that flourishing of heating that is coming through the Spirit, the blood of Christ that cleanses us and the wine of new creation that is flowing backwards through the pipes into Our communities. And what would that do? Well, that would make us makers that would make us be people who will be known for beauty and mercy. And, and yet, oftentimes the preaching stops at, okay, so you haven't redeemed you need your neighbour redeem. So let's go out and share the gospel to your neighbours. And that's not wrong. But it is only a portion of the grand now story, the good news, which which which is a remarkable, unbelievable in a sense, calling that we have toward this abundance of God in the midst of grounds or conditions or over scarcity around us the wasteland in front of us, those those pointing actually a Jesus words that caught us beyond what we see. And that's why it takes faith to walk into places like Ukraine right now devastation. And yet you we are as Christians, to seek God's abundance in that very heart of darkness. And these are things that we see inspiration in the world, like President Zelensky, showing up in the midst of that and courageously showing leadership that points to just beyond the swamp, right, it points to a world in which human beings ought to act, you know, heroically faced with evil, faced with darkness, and pointing out some grand narratives that move far beyond the end of this war into a community and society that we long to live in.
David Mckeown 12:00
Yeah, I love I love that. And I think just picking up around those ideas that you mentioned, there is sometimes we we stop the gospel, too short, we say it's up to the point of redemption or forgiveness. But actually, the gospel is much bigger than that, I think. Yeah, absolutely. And it involves the new creation. And that's some of the big themes that come through in your book, the difference between que nos on neon, or neon. And again, those are great ideas. And I wonder if you could just maybe speak a little bit further into that for for our listeners as well, because because some great nuggets there. I think that will help people move from the fact that the gospel is not just this small portion, but I could, it's much bigger.
Makoto Fujimura 12:46
Yeah, it's not certainly a checklist of you know, things to do and not to do. The word kindness comes from Paul's was in Christ, we are new creation, and that we're new is kindness. And, you know, in Greek, there are several words for new newness. And this is a very distinctive word that poor users, very rare use. And usually what is new, like a new iPhone is nails. So we from which we get the word neon, it's flashy, it's new, everybody wants it. But next day, it's old, you know, and there's a new one, you know, next in six months, or whatever. And so that's nails. Now, what is kindness, kindness? Well, I translated a as new newness, while Paul is saying is that this newness in Christ is so substantially and so radically new, that we don't really understand this newness, that this is a new kind of newness, which is exemplified by Christ resurrected body, which is a body, he's not a ghost, but he is fully present. And yet he is everywhere. And he has his nail marks with him. And so what is this newness? Well, we don't fully have language for this. So kindness is a language that Paul chose to use. As a way to designate that. This is not like a new iPhone or new new car. This is a new new that's that is redefining what new is.
David Mckeown 14:31
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Makoto Fujimura 16:37
Kintsugi is a Japanese word King is gold and Twiggy means demand. So he also means to to go means to pass something on to the next generation. It flows out of the high tea ceremony of the 16th century Japan. And Kentucky has become kind of ubiquitous now in culture there's in Star Wars. You know, Kylo Ren is helmet is Kentucky and the you know, it's kind of everywhere now. But is a traditional art form by Japan lacquer masters who do see masters who would take broken ceramics, sometimes very important tea ware will break because of many earthquakes and tsunamis in Japan and the family is a tea masters will often hold on to the fragments for several generations. And then give the fragments and the story of how that tea was used to serve certain dignitaries or Shogun or whatever that may be. And Japan echomaster will not fix it, but men that to make new with gold in the fissures of the cracks, the cracks are amplified and highlighted and beautified by gold, which makes the consumable and product of Kintsugi to be more valuable than even the original bore as valuable as that may have been. So in japan, Japanese tradition, this idea of imperfection, finding beauty to imperfection is is critical is a central understanding of how we understand that impermanence is actually an even death itself can become beautiful, beautiful. And it's kind of counter to Western notion or perfected beauty. And so this, this takes a while to adjust our thinking. And yet many people resonate with this today in a fragmented society with so many divisions, even the obviously politically but divisiveness within the Church. country is at war. You know, when when things break, western mind says well throw it away, we'll build a new one. But the Japanese will say no, let's first look at the brokenness and behold it until we can see beauty in that. And let's process this you know, together perhaps to to be able to understand what had happened. It has a generational impact, you can just move on, move on. You know, I am a survivor of a 911 I was I lived three blocks away from the towers, and I was trapped on the knees but I you cannot move you know, away from ground zero in that sense because the Ground Zero is part of you now. And so beholding the fractures beholding what is broken becomes the first step into understanding how even those painful memories and even the trauma that you experienced can't be an entry point into something new that did not exist before. And if your question and if you understand the post resurrection journey of Christ, Christ with as a wounded human being, coming back in fullness, and yeah, he chose to have the nail marks with him. And it is through his wounds that we are healed. So therefore, our new creation, that kind of reality comes through Christ's wounds, it is as if a light shines through them into our hearts, so that we can be healed. And our wounds can become not just fixed, but also mended to become new. So I think Kintsugi is one of the most profound concepts indigenous to Japan. But as I talked about, in my science and beauty book, Japanese culture has hidden many realities of biblical story and gospel in her culture. This is because Christianity flowed into Japan very early on, because Silk Road history. And then through many years of persecution, Japan has persecuted Christian thoughts underneath. And I argue that that has become Japanese culture, a large and in fact, what the Japanese are talking about when they talk about beauty, the sacrificial beauty is pointing Christ.
David Mckeown 21:39
Yeah, I mean, I think that picture of Jesus, the resurrected Jesus with is still having those wounds, really does speak into that, because so often we think, I think, by and large in the Church, we can often think that when we become new, that all those bits are left behind. And almost not important or not useful. And I think that's where the contiguity principle, this picture of pulling the parts together to make something even more beautiful, I think, to me, it's much more stronger, and maybe speaks into this kind of this new newness, it's not just like, we're new, the old is gone. And that's it. But actually, there's something powerful about we carry something from the past. And some of those things we carry from the past, maybe we're not proud off, and even leaders as they're listening, maybe stuff in their life, they're not proud of, but actually even those things, God can take and mend them into something even greater.
Makoto Fujimura 22:42
We are, of course, not celebrating brokenness, in doing that, and that that's, that requires a deeper, more complex theological, you know, thinking and and actually applying this is some something that an artist does very well. If you watch a Shakespearean theatre that's happening in front of you, because the tension has to be there between what we seek to be perfect, and, and the reality of brokenness that we actually experience on this side of eternity. And how that brokenness, you know, there's this fallenness of Macbeth, right? becomes so real in us, right, that we start identify with this lunatic, basically, you know, a power possessed lunatic, any yet. There's truth there, right? So the so we have to balance between, you know, we're not celebrating my path, and you know, and yet, we can understand our own frailties and fallenness and be able to apply that principle through Christ. And this is only possible through Christ, because Christ is the only archetype for this type of inversion, this type of upside down Kingdom, where the poor become rich, where the wounded are the one that he will become the healers. And it is it is absent. So upside down that I think it requires, you know, very careful and nuanced, you know, communication, and yet I see it everywhere in nature. I see it in the principles that we value in economics, in, you know, in in leadership teaching. So, I think there's internal kind of Compass toward this reality as well.
David Mckeown 24:58
Yeah, and I think what Well, well, Potter for pointing out the fact that we're not here to celebrate brokenness. But we, I think, also, we're not here to ignore it either. I think it's seeing the big picture, isn't it really, and seeing the fact that Christ can take the bits of us that actually aren't so good, and create something better out of them going into the future. And I think that's one of the things I really love about that idea. Within the book, one of the other big things you talk around is this idea of slow arts. And, and I'd watch some of the videos and tutorials that you had online through some of your stuff. And listen, just some of the processes and the lengthy processes, there is within creating some of the art that you would make, and it got me thinking, Is there something that we can learn from slow art in our hurried world today, do you think
Makoto Fujimura 25:57
so there's such a divide between industrial world post industrial world, between nature and what we make, you know, and today, you can make an entire movie without touching anything. And, and, and yet, that has given us a kind of alienation from each other alienation even from yourself that psychiatrists are noticing that, you know, in the pandemic shutdown, we are always on Zoom, and, and we might be productive, getting something done. And yet, something is happening to our psyche, where we feel totally isolated, you know, and, and experience depression or loneliness in ways that we haven't. And it just points to the need that human beings have to somatic knowledge or somatic reality. And, you know, and then that, that, if you flip that, we can see how the Church can be one of the most attractive places when some places where people simply to gather, just to be a community. Right. And, and yeah, we've been forced to, you know, doing zoom worship and so forth. And there's something wrong when we can't touch, you know, and, and, and embrace each other. That way, you know, communion is meant to be served in person, right, so, so there's something about human nature and nature, the actual fabric of reality that we can violate and go for too long. And so slowness is not just in what I do in pulverising pigments, minerals, and mixing it by hand, and, you know, it takes about, you know, six hours to prepare the glue, and then you reconstitute it with. So it's this constant growth, of trying to get the right kind of mixture for right time. And it's closer to gardening than it is to, you know, making something industrial efficient with industrial efficiency. So, when you use your hands, there are so many variables that come into play. And because the slowness, you know, whether you're making a stew or when you're making anything, you know, it all comes down to ingredients, and it comes down to the quality of what you choose. So it takes years of, you know, training as it were to just get to that point where you choose the right things for the right type, and it keeps changing, right. So there is no formula there is no recipe that accurately captures the you know, carrots that you've chosen at the farmers market. So you kind of have to intuit that. And that's what's known as does is, you know, when we, when we come to understand that our senses fully alive in God can have a deeper knowledge of understanding about making that we may not have on on Zoom sessions or on TV. That's when we realise that there is something missing in education right now and something missing actually in our churches, that doesn't cultivate a sanctified imagination. through our senses. And so we have not done well in advanced cultures to really connect with the Earth First of all, and we connect with each other. And so attentiveness is gone because of that. And so slowness in anything slow art, if we can live slow life let's say we might recover some some of what we have lost.
David Mckeown 30:29
Well Miko it has been such a pleasure to have you with us today on the church explained podcast. I want to thank you for joining me. If people want to find out more details about you, where would they need to go?
Makoto Fujimura 30:41
Just look up my name. My website will come up and all the linkage to culture care creative internationals movement, they're all there. So
David Mckeown 30:51
fantastic. So again, we'll put that in the show notes and people will be able to find that the data has been fantastic. So a big thank you for being with us. And that that is a wrap for us today.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
