CEP SEASON TWO EP:14 - WITH GUEST WADE JOYE
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 14 of the Church Explained Podcast.
A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
We are joined by Wade Joye, who most recently served as the Worship Pastor at Elevation Church under the leadership of Pastor Steven Furtick for 14 years. He oversaw the development of the worship culture and staffing for 20 locations, spearheaded the growth of Elevation Worship, and was instrumental in creating the systems that allowed Elevation Worship songs to go around the world as he led the record label and touring teams.
Wade also led the teams that executed the weekend worship experiences, oversaw service programming, and coached campus pastors on their on-stage hosting and preaching. In addition, Wade was a regular speaker on the main stage at Elevation Church.
We know you will love part one of the podcast.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, so welcome to the church explained podcast our conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church. today. We're joined by an amazing guest and we're going to introduce him in a second. But of course, my name is Dave McKeown for those who don't know me on my host is
Nathan Benger 0:14
Nathan Avenger. So great to be together
David Mckeown 0:25
well, welcome way to the show. That's just your little bit about you, and then we'll find out some more about you as we go through. So today, as I said, we're joined by Weird joy, who is now serving churches around the years through teaching and coaching. Were most recently served as the worship Pastor and Elevation Church, under the leadership of Pastor Steven Furtick. For 14 years. He oversaw the development of worship, culture and staffing for 20 locations, spirit, the growth and pastoring of elevation Church worship, and was instrumental in creating the systems that allowed elevation worship songs to go around the world. As you lead the record label and the touring teams. That sounds fantastic. We had also led teams that executed the weekend worship experiences and oversaw servicing and programming. Coach campus pastors are at their stages of hosting and preaching, where it was a regular presence preaching on the mainstage of Elevation Church. So we're on his way for us. I have three daughters that they adore, and they're learning to navigate family and ministry at this point in their life. They have three children with special needs, like cystic fibrosis, and cerebral palsy. So that's a lot of stuff. They're weird about you. And we're going to find out some more, as well. But just great to have some insight about your family as well. Maybe we'll we'll dig into that a little bit as we go through. But welcome with the show.
Wade Joye 1:52
Oh, thank you so much. I'm really really honoured to be here. I'm excited about it.
David Mckeown 1:57
So amazing. So hey, Nathan, you've got to first you've got to first question.
Nathan Benger 2:01
Yeah, yeah. So, Wade, obviously, your bio, you do a lot of stuff. And we've seen that you've done a lot within Elevation Church, but why don't you just give us a maybe a little bit more about your background, family location, role, where you're at? And what also do you do for fun?
Wade Joye 2:20
Oh, yes. Well, so I grew up in South Carolina, so lived there for most of my life until I moved to Charlotte 15 years ago, to be a part of Elevation Church. And yeah, I grew up in Minnesota, like surrounded by ministry. My granddad was a Pastor, and planted the Church. He was my hero growing up, and my, it was like a family run Church pretty much. My dad was the music minister, my mom played the Oregon, my aunt and uncle were the youth Pastor. So I just grew up like loving Church, and then got into music when I was in high school and wanted to be a Christian rock star for a while and had a failed attempt to try to be the next Steven Curtis Chapman, another short, blonde,
David Mckeown 3:06
worship leader.
Wade Joye 3:09
But now, somewhere in my mid 20s, is when I really began to see that my dream of doing that was too focused on me. And the Lord really began to give me a passion for leading worship. And so I lead worship at camps and retreats. And at one of those is when I met Pastor Steven. And that started that friendship. And while I was a youth Pastor and worship leader at a Methodist Church in Colombia brought him in to lead a disciple now weekend, and he told me about elevation at Church he just started and kind of the rest is history. We can get into more of that story if you want. But yeah, I love serving and elevation as the worship Pastor for 15 years. And now I'm travelling, and preaching and coaching what I do for fun. I love anything geek related. I love Star Wars a lot more. I'm a huge Star Wars fan actually. Love Marvel. Me and my kids geek out on all that kind of stuff. I love to read. I love to be outside. I love to work out and watch a lot of movies. So that's, that's what I do for fun.
David Mckeown 4:20
Sounds pretty good that way. I like the work. I bet. My watch. What sort of work are you doing at the minute?
Wade Joye 4:27
So it's a it's by a group called Mind pump. And so they have they have a workout called Map split that I'm doing and it's basically a push pull legs. You go through that twice a week with one day off.
David Mckeown 4:45
Nice Well,
Wade Joye 4:46
that might be more information than you wanted to know but that's that's what I'm doing.
David Mckeown 4:50
Well we do like going to the gym myself and Nathan not together of course because he wouldn't be quite as strong as me I better but have male ego that so well say the word, but it's great to find out about some of those things. And listen your role at Elevation Church you were there for, like, as you say, 14 years. But what really impacted you the most, as you were there on that journey? I mean, if you could pick one thing, there's probably loads and loads of stuff you could share today. But what's one of the one things that really impacted you, and why
Wade Joye 5:25
can I pick two things can
David Mckeown 5:27
get worse superchannel risk, so go for it, you've got two things today.
Wade Joye 5:32
Double portion blessing right here. I most like the thing that impacted me the most was seeing how God changed my family through it all. So getting to see, all three of my girls come to faith in Jesus getting the bat getting to baptise them, seeing them love Church, that to me, like we saw God do amazing things around the world. But seeing him like, make our family healthier, and see my kids fall in love with Jesus that impacted me more than anything else. I would say also, I was very, very impacted by just Pastor Stephens leadership and seeing like his commitment, dedication, he's one he's probably the most disciplined person I've ever met in terms of when he sets his mind towards something. You know, he's going to orient his life around accomplishing that. And so I think seeking God is the thing he's oriented his life around the most and then feeling called to build this Church and and seeing how he is always so obedient to what the Holy Spirit asks him to do. Has was just something for me up close watching that firsthand, it was it, it left a mark on me for sure.
David Mckeown 6:57
Wow. So that that example of leadership, as you've said, there, it's a big thing and the change in your phone like,
Nathan Benger 7:03
yeah, just thinking about that way. And and obviously, the growth and you've come in and you're you're leading as you, as we said earlier, the creative worship teams, all of that. You don't have to pick one thing. But the question is, what is one thing you would want creative worship leaders to know above everything else?
Wade Joye 7:26
Oh, yeah, that's, that's something that I'm really passionate about, just based on my own journey as a creative and as a worship leader, and then pastoring others and I have a huge heart for people who are called to serve in that way, to me my journey, I realised over the years how much I had built my identity around what I considered my gift, so whether it was songwriting or worship leading, I preached for all these years to our team, you know, you're not what you do. It's, you know, it's who you are, and God and if you're a child of God, but I found that whenever I had to let go of some of those things that I had been passionate about, I realised how much I had defined myself by those things. And, you know, when I at the age of 40, transitioned away from leading worship, which had done for over two decades, it was a real identity crisis for me, because I didn't know who I was, if I wasn't weighed the worship leader, and I didn't feel as valuable to God or as valuable to the Church. And that was a real good, pro proving time for me, for the Lord to peel back. All this pride in my heart of wanting people to know me and feel important and feel impressive. It was a it was a good time for me to like, learn how to truly like live openhanded before him with my gift. And so I would say, to think of the gift you have, not as the thing that let me say it this way, this would be the better way to say it. I think we misappropriate our gift and we place it in the in the role of purpose in our life. And that's when you define yourself by it, you're afraid to lose it. But your purpose is to follow Christ to know Christ to and to bring Him glory in every sphere of life. Your your gift is one of the ways you do that in building the Church. But you can have different gifts in different seasons. And so Ephesians 320 is one of my favourite verses to talk about right now. Because when we love to quote God can do immeasurably more than we ask or imagine and we love to shout about that. But what I found in my life is I I think that means that God's going to take my dream what I imagined and just crank it to 11 and just make that awesome but what if God has a different Imagination a different dream for your life. And you don't experience it because you're so busy clinging to the thing that you imagined that you dreamed. And so we can live with open hands before the Lord, he can bring out new gifts for new seasons. And so don't limit what God can do in your life based on the one passion you have now, use that passion grow in your gift, walk in your calling, but then be open for new new dreams, New Seasons, new assignments. And so I would just tell worship leaders and creatives just to stop clinging to the thing that you love more than Jesus, like simply said, like, pursue Jesus and live openhanded. Sorry, that was a long winded answer.
Nathan Benger 10:46
No, great, great answer. And I love that I love that thought of, you know, like, we take that the Ephesians 320 and apply it to our dreams or our imagination. Whereas maybe God's got a different imagination. I wonder if Wait, if there's any, anything practically or anything that you do to live with that open hand and saying, Okay, God, you know, I'm following you searching after you rather than holding on to my gift, or whatever it is I do as my identity, but my identity is following you. I don't know if you've got anything that would help people.
Wade Joye 11:25
Yeah, well, honestly, one of the couple things I would tell there was there was one thing that Pastor Steven taught me early on, that really changed the way I looked at ministry, it was mature ministry is being more excited about what God does through others than what he does to yourself. And so I found when I can actually be an advocate for someone else, and champion someone else, it just gets the focus off of me. And it helps me see that if I'm empowering others, equipping others, helping them walk in there get that is the true role of a Pastor. And it helps me just live with the other centred posture instead of a me centred posture. I would say the other big practice that has really helped me over the last two years, is just a lot of time in silence and solitude before the Lord, and actually letting him search my heart and bring things to the surface that need to be dealt with. I think in the past, I would have, I want to push that stuff away and felt like well, I'm not supposed to feel bad, I'm not supposed to think that and I just wouldn't deal with it. I think I think now learning to, to pay attention to what my heart is saying the good and the bad. And then let like bring all of that to the Lord. Let him filter it and and change me as he sees fit. And then also bring it to the right people bring it to a counsellor. I've gotten to see a counsellor who has helped me navigate some of these bring this to trusted pastors to my wife, and let other people speak into it. But for me, it started with just being silent before the Lord. And just really trying to listen to what the Holy Spirit is wanting to tell me. And sometimes it's like, hey, you've got this pride in your life that you're not dealing with and being okay to, to navigate that and see what's underneath it and then make changes accordingly.
David Mckeown 13:20
Hi, everyone, I hope you're enjoying the podcast, we just want to take a moment and pause and let you know about something exciting we have on offer right here from IKON Open, we help leaders find solution through our coaching on team training. And we've worked with all types of churches in different countries around the world, from large churches to small churches, and of course, anything in between. And leaders come to us for a variety of reasons. For some, they simply want to get to the next level in their leadership. They want a coach to work with them for a period of time. So they can get new momentum or fresh ideas or fresh insights for the next part of their journey. Other leaders will come to us maybe they're working through some opportunities or challenges in their Church. And just maybe to have someone to think with them to help them process through big ideas like staffing, or teams or transitions really does seem to make a difference to them. So if you've never had a coach and you're a senior leader or a leader within a Church, we want to encourage you to get in touch with us. Because we think we can really help you find the solutions you need for the next part of your journey. Have a look at IKON dot Church forward slash coaching. And you'll find all the details there of how to connect with us. And we look forward to hearing from you very, very soon. Well, and yeah, great, great answer for that as well. And we've been thinking a little bit about this idea of transitions, because you mentioned there were that when you first came in to Elevation Church, you were doing one role, and then as time went on, that role changed. And I guess they even in this new type of ministry for you, that seems to key in. I wonder could you speak again because it's probably lots of pastors and leaders just listening and Thinking about this idea of transitions? How do we transition in a healthy way free? I wonder if I can be a little bit cheeky? And ask, what was the real challenge that you had when it came to transitioning from the leading to developing others? Because sometimes it's, it's not always as smooth as we want. The sad is, there's that internal stuff that's happening. So for pastors or leaders, you're just thinking about transition. How did you navigate that?
Wade Joye 15:30
Yet, to me, transitions are just a natural part of your discipleship, your sanctification process, and empowering others. Because in me transitioning, I'm creating space for someone else to step into what I used to do, and helping see that it's not your transition is not just about you. It's about the people you're leading, it's about the people you're shepherding is about the people who they need to transition into something new. But for me, it was really, really hard. I experienced a couple of transitions, that elevation one was transitioning away from my first seven years or so I helped really build elevation worship, and I was, I would sing on albums, I would write songs. And Pastor Steven came to me several times over those years, and he would say something to the effect of, you're a really good worship leader. You're a really good songwriter. But Matt and Chris, are great worship leaders and great songwriters. And I see in you a gift to be a great Pastor, a great teacher. So you're gonna have to decide one day, if you're willing to let go of what you're good at, in order to make room for what you can be great at.
Nathan Benger 16:54
Did I did that make you feel weighed when he spoke to you like,
Wade Joye 16:57
no, not not good? Yeah. But but it was, in retrospect, it was the kindest thing he could do for me is to actually his clarity, his kindness. It showed me kind of what he saw in me. But in my mind, in that moment, I was like, You know what, that's, that'll be, I'll be ready for that one day. Because it wasn't a forced transition in the moment. But when that one day came, it was incredibly difficult. But one thing that really helped me is that I was I remember I was it was right before we were about to record an album, and I was praying, and I was asking the Lord, because album time would always get tough. And it would be because everybody wants to sing on the album. But with a lot of worship leaders, there's only so many songs in the album, but not everybody can do it. And I remember I was praying, I was like, God, when are people going to understand that it's not about albums, it's about building your Church. And I felt like the Holy Spirit convicted me and said, Well, you don't get that yet. So how can you expect them to get it. And that helped me realise that this was what I said a second ago, this transition wasn't just about what God needed to work on in my heart. It was about me helping establish and build and lead the way in the culture that the Lord wanted to establish for elevation worship and for Elevation Church with our worship ministries, and leaders have to have to go first. It's one of the biggest leadership cliches but it's true. And going first doesn't always mean you want to go there, you know exactly what it takes to navigate that. It just meant saying, God, I'm going to trust you. And I'm gonna take this step. It's a being honest with the team about how hard it was for me. And, but then also being faithful to say, if I believe that Jesus is trustworthy, and that he knows what's best for me and for our Church and for our ministry, then I also have to believe that the leadership is placed over me. like nothing's no decisions are being made, that haven't gone through the Lord's hands first. And so I had to believe that this transition was part of God's ultimate discipleship process for me. And so I think trusting in that, that it was ultimately from the Lord. It wasn't just the decision of a person, or, you know, and trying to see is this something that the Holy Spirit is trying to do and me helped me, it was incredibly difficult. Like for six months, it was just a lot of just mess in my heart that I did go to counselling about, and I did talk to trusted people about and I didn't always have good days, but I really tried to model well to the team. And there's life on the other side of this. It's not like, you don't get to do this one thing that you built your identity upon, and then everything after that, once it's gone, it's awful. No, there's new seasons, new things. There's joy in the new thing that God wants to do. And so on the other side of that seeing that freedom and joy helped me Pastor the team better to say, Hey, this is like God can be trustworthy and trusted in this journey. And so a similar journey happened, like I said earlier when I stopped leading worship altogether. And then, you know, now I'm in this season of transition. And it took my wife and I about a year last year, once we felt the stirring, because we thought, we're going to be at elevation to the end. And I would say, at the beginning of 2021, is when the two of us started to think, oh, gosh, maybe, maybe the Lord is wanting us to not just say, this door is closed, God, we've already settled this matter, maybe he wants us to actually be open and say, God, if you actually wanted to lead us somewhere, we're willing. And so we committed to pray for a year about it. And so I would say that for people who are navigating and Trent transitions, to not make decisions based on how you feel in a moment, but be committed to a process, a prayer, a process of discernment, to see what's the Holy Spirit and what's just a bad day. And so over the course of that year, I felt the Lord affirm things for us. And so that when we were able to take the step, even though it was scary, and I'm still have days where I'm scared, I'm like, What did I do? We really trusted that it was the Lord. I mean, I think the most you can say is 80. I'm 80%. Sure it was God. There's always that 20%. But, but but we've seen God's faithfulness so much in this process, that he's just affirmed that time and time again. But I'm really thankful that we took the time, and we had people in our life telling us to take that amount of time to really discern it. So that that was helpful for us. So there's times for me, like when you say,
Wade Joye 21:51
you have to discern, okay, this isn't my preference. But I'm submitting my preference to the Lord and to my leader. Because it's a humbling process. For me, it's a purifying process for me, and it's for the greater good, then there's some times where maybe God stirs up some discontent in you to say, Okay, well, maybe there's actually a gift in me that God's calling me to use elsewhere, or there's a calling that God has for me elsewhere. And you have to be able to discern between the two different things. Sometimes God calls you to stay, and it takes faith to stay, sometimes God calls you to go and it takes faith to go. They take equal faith sometimes. But we're not going to know which is which if we're not really centering our hearts on the Lord, and learning the way he talks to us through our emotions, through His Word, through His Spirit through other people. And so I've been learning a lot about that, too.
David Mckeown 22:45
Brilliant. Hey, thanks for sharing that. Yeah, I think there's, there's a lot of good stuff in there really isn't there? Around just knowing what to do at the right time. And and I like that idea of 80%. Because a lot of that signs a little bit lack of a, you know, I need to know 100%. But I think to know, 80% is pretty good, I think because let's face it, in reality, we make decisions, when we don't know if it's perfectly right. But that's okay. I think it's good just to have a go. And, you know, 80 80% is better than 50%.
Wade Joye 23:21
Yeah. And, you know, Scripture tells us that the Lord directs the steps of the godly. Absolutely. And I think in order for him to do that, you have to take a step sometimes, and trust that if I took the wrong step, God's big enough to get me where he wants me to be.
Nathan Benger 23:39
No, definitely. I wonder, wait, I just think and as you were talking, how did like you had obviously had the conversation with leader Pastor who was overseeing you, how did that go? How did they respond in that moment? I think it might be helpful. Maybe even for somebody who's a Pastor here who somebody is going to have that conversation with them at some point. How did that go?
Wade Joye 24:04
Yeah. My leaders with with chunks Chuck's Corbett, he's the CFO, executive, Pastor role at elevation. He and then Pastor Steven obviously, were very, very gracious to me, and very, very just kind and affirming. And I remember chunks. When I talked to him about it. He was like, Hey, how to how can I best help you right now? Like, do you want me to help you figure out how to do some of the things that are on your heart here? Or is it to help me you want me to help you figure out the next steps outside of here, just let me know. And so I felt like he really kind of came beside me and wanted what was best for me in that moment. And that just felt so freeing, because I was nervous about that conversation. I don't want to let you I don't want to let it I don't want to let people down. I mean nervous Nervous is too small. And we're and I was I was I was terrified. But and plus I love I love the Church, it's what we've given our life to for 15 years, we still attend elevation. But so yeah, that was, you know, I felt I have a strong people pleasing side of me. So I hate anytime that I feel like I'm disappointing someone. But he was very kind, very gracious Pastor Steven was very kind like saying he was really sad. But he also supported me and like, knew that I had stuff in me that he really wanted me to see. He wanted to see me go after what God had put in my heart with all my heart. That was his biggest like, you know, just challenge to me is whatever the Lord has put in, you go after it with all your heart. And so, yeah, I felt it wasn't doesn't mean that I'm sure that there were times where both of them were sad, frustrated, they're human too. But I think that everything I heard and their overall posture and tone towards me, was we love you, we're for you. Yes, we've got to figure out some pieces now that you're gone. And that's the part where it gets hard, and it gets messy. But then that's also a chance to, I think that when God finally spoke to me, that it was time to leave. I think the other thing that I felt was, I was no longer the right person to take elevation worship, where it needed to go and someone else needed. And if I stayed in this position, I was robbing someone else of their chance to lead and also the innovation that was in them that was going to help unlock what was next for the team. And so which, that's easy to say that's hard for my pride to think that someone else is better for this season than I am. And I for sure experience tonnes of FOMO right now watching everything but but yeah, I think there were challenges for sure anytime there's a transition. But I think hopefully and I believe it's unlocking just new new grace, new ideas, new innovation, new health for the team now this next season.
Nathan Benger 27:17
Wait, it's been so good to chat together. And big thank you to everyone who's listening and watching however you're consuming the content, subscribe, share it. Pass it on to your worship pastors, creative pastors, anyone you know that would be this conversation will be helpful to them. Don't forget to check out IKON dot Church for slash open for a whole load of free resources and we look forward to seeing you next time. And hearing us next time on the church explained podcast. We'll see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
