CEP SEASON TWO EP:15 - WITH GUEST WADE JOYE
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 15 of the Church Explained Podcast.
A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Welcome to part two of the show with Wade Joye, who shares the importance of recognising and understanding the healthy tensions we face in leadership.
Wade most recently served as the Worship Pastor at Elevation Church under the leadership of Pastor Steven Furtick for 14 years. He oversaw the development of the worship culture and staffing for 20 locations, spearheaded the growth of Elevation Worship, and was instrumental in creating the systems that allowed Elevation Worship songs to go around the world as he led the record label and touring teams.
Wade also led the teams that executed the weekend worship experiences, oversaw service programming, and coached campus pastors on their on-stage hosting and preaching. In addition, Wade was a regular speaker on the main stage at Elevation Church.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, so welcome to the church explained podcast, our conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church. Today, we're joined by an amazing guest. And we're going to introduce him in a second. But of course, my name is Dave McKeown for those who don't know, me, and my host is
Nathan Benger 0:15
Nathan Benja. So great to be together.
David Mckeown 0:25
Wonderful, I think just what you were mentioning there it takes, it takes a lot of courage doesn't it takes courage to step out and do what you've done, because you went from a place of security, to a place where you've stepped out. And of course, that security will, obviously come again, but it takes a lot of courage, doesn't it just to say, well, somebody else I've done my bed, I no longer fit. And actually, it's time for somebody else to fit. But that takes a lot of, I think, a lot of guts. So well, well, well done on that for having the guts and the courage because it could have been so easy just to stay where you were, and just enjoy. And suppose, you know, just go along with the flow. But it takes a lot of courage. And that says something about worrying about your leadership, and your gift and your obedience to God as well, which actually, maybe can encourage some other leaders today just to say, Well, what's what's the courageous step I need to take going forward
Wade Joye 1:21
with that, thank you for saying that. Just the Lord. The Lord gave us the grace that we needed when we needed it. And he's been so kind to us, in every part of the process. So that couldn't have done it without that. But there thank you.
Nathan Benger 1:37
Now really good. I know, You've chatted to Dave offline. Before and and I know you mentioned some spiritual transformation in the last couple years, I wonder if you could share kind of what has happened in some of those significant shifts in your life.
Wade Joye 1:54
Yeah, so this is something that I'm probably the most passionate about right now, this season of life. But it was the summer of 2020. It was June 2020. Actually, and you know, we're all a couple of months into COVID and lock downs, and no one's really doing great mentally or emotionally at this point. But I remember sitting on my back porch, here at my house, and I always just felt so empty, so depleted. And I remember just praying, saying, God, I don't feel the abundant life in Christ that I've, that I've told people is available. I don't feel it right now. And just as I don't feel healthy, I feel I wouldn't have defined it as burnout. But it was probably something like that. A lot of anxiety. And I was just praying for help and the Lord just in his, in his own way, just impressed upon me. You don't have any healthy rhythms in your life, spiritually, physically or emotionally in this season. And until you make those changes and take ownership for your life, there's no space for me to come in and do the healing I want to do. And so what that did, for me, was pretty transformational. And it started with very small changes. So it started with me reorienting my prayer life, away from just a I'm gonna check the box and do my quiet time in the morning. But to really read more and more about prayer, and how to do more, like I said earlier, like silence and solitude and praying through the Scriptures, the app, like do 365, I started to use that. And that helped me learn how to pray through prayer through the Word. And so I've started to, to really expand my prayer life there, I started to eat better, because before that I ate like a five year old and ate doughnuts all the time. And just and plus my metabolism would just like you can't do that anymore. I started working out more disciplined. And then also, I had always been a night owl I would go to bed at like 12 or one. And I realised that if I wanted to start my day with the Lord, I had to add to focus on how I was ending my day. And so I started like going to bed earlier waking up earlier. So all these things were happening simultaneously. And I realised that that as I was disciplined in one area, it was contagious and other areas of my life and it started to all around bring a sense of wholeness and healing to me. I grew up in a Baptist tradition with like I said, my great idea the Pastor and for me, as I got older, I rebelled a little bit against some of what I would have called legalism, which legalism is a bad thing. But I think in running away from legalism, I'd run away from discipline and my faith. And realising that legalism and discipline are two very different things, even though they look similar. Sometimes legalism is an attempt to look good to others to look good to God to try to earn approval. discipline is just building your life around what matters to you. And, you know, realising that no other Pastor, no other Church, no other person can take ownership for my spiritual health but me. And so starting to go on that journey just changed my life. And I began to love God's word more began to love, being in prayer more, began to hear God's voice in a clearer way, became way more aware of my own failings and my own weakness, but was able to bring those to God in a different way. And so yeah, it's been a very healthy season. In fact, my last year at elevation, I would say, would have been my healthiest season of ministry there. And so it wasn't like I was leaving, because though I'm not feeling healthy. If anything, it helps show me you can get healthy, in a high paced environment and a fast paced organisation. And in any kind of solid Church, it's up to you to figure out what you're bringing to the Lord. God showed me how much I was looking for the approval of other people more than resting in his approval. There's so many lessons God has taught me through that. And so I am passionate now in this season about helping people, especially in modern American Church, go through a similar process of discipleship, saying, yes, Sundays are awesome, and corporate worship is amazing. But how do you live that out, day to day to day, and worship privately and bring your heart and your soul to the Lord and let that work itself out in your life? I think that's something that we can do as a as a whole, as a Church a better job of pastoring and disciple people cycling people into that process.
David Mckeown 6:59
Yeah, good to hear that. And just picking that up a little bit. Is that so for you then the most? I'm trying to think is the right word. Is it the most thing that the knot doesn't come out? Right? I'm sure we can add. It is this. Just think of the equation that? are you most excited about this at the moment?
Wade Joye 7:24
Yes, so we're right now I am. Another thing I felt like the Lord is really asking me to do to step out in the season is to, I love to teach, I love to preach, realise, I love to write, I've been writing a book, and all of it is centred around this concept of just bringing your whole heart to God, and and creating healthy rhythms and disciplines of consistency in your life. And so for me, I am very, very passionate about coaching, Church leaders and pastors and worship leaders, especially on how do you lead from a healthy place and God. Because I think I think that that allows your teams to be healthier, because what's in your inner world always comes out in your outer world, and it's always going to manifest itself in your leadership. And so whenever I coach somebody, before we get to the mechanics of being a worship Pastor, or creative director or whatever, always want to start with the heart. And I let les really walk through what are your prayer rhythms? What are your Sabbath rhythms? What are you, you know, let's look at all the areas of your life. And so that's been a real joy for me to come alongside some people in this season to do that, and then to write about it, and to teach about it as well. I'm really enjoying that.
David Mckeown 8:47
Hi, everyone, I hope you're enjoying the podcast, we just want to take a moment and pause and let you know that something exciting we have on offer right here from IKON Open, we help leaders find solutions through our coaching on team training. And we've worked with all types of churches in different countries around the world, from large churches to small churches, and of course, anything in between. And leaders come to us for a variety of reasons. For some, they simply want to get to the next level in their leadership. They want a coach to work with them for a period of time, so they can get new momentum or fresh ideas or fresh insights for the next part of their journey. Other leaders will come to us maybe they're working through some opportunities or challenges in their Church. And just maybe to have someone to think with them and help them process through big ideas like staffing or teams or transitions really does seem to make a difference to them. So if you've never had a coach and you're a senior leader or a leader within a Church, we want to encourage you to get in touch with us because we think we can really help you find the solutions do need for the next part of your journey. Have a look at IKON dot Church forward slash coaching and you'll find all the details there. Have it connect with us and we look forward to hearing from you Very, very soon.
Nathan Benger 10:02
Great. Now I think I think, yeah, what you're sharing in terms of the whole wholeness thing is, is such a big thing in the, in the Church as well. And I loved your analogy of legalism and discipline. Because, yeah, we would, we would we would take discipline as legalism many times, and even vice versa legalism as as discipline. And so, yeah, just, I just think really helpful for us in this season, just to think of our own lives, to, to implement that in our own lives. So that's, that's the thing. You're excited about, Wade? What are you most challenged about at the moment?
Wade Joye 10:47
Oh, man, it's so many things. I mean, there's, there's personal challenges, I feel like I'm navigating. And then even in, you know, just as I look at the Church as a whole things that I'm challenged by, I'll start with the personal, I think, really the balance for me of somebody who wants to make things happen, and I am a driven person. And I think Dr. Can be good, I don't think it's a bad thing. But I'm trying to learn that balance between Resting in God, and trusting in God. And taking it like realise that, that I have a role to play. And there are things that I need to do, I can't just pray after pray and work. But knowing the difference between working and striving, and saying, Okay, I'm gonna do what I can do, and then I can rest in that. And then trust that the Lord will get, you know, if I were to book the Lord, my future is not wrapped up in a publisher, my future is wrapped up in the Lord. And if you want this book out, he can get it out to whoever. And so it's learning that that balance of trust, of saying, I'm gonna do everything I can do, especially in the season where I'm not on the staff anywhere. So it feels like there's a lot of uncertainty in my life. So I'm really challenged to, to trust and to work hard, but then not strive and not try to force something to happen. That's not what God has for me. So I'm really and I think that's where it's just my, like, my times in the morning and my times of prayer throughout the day just helped me recenter my heart and say, Okay, gotta give this to you. There's a prayer that I love to pray, I think I got it from John Eldridge, a bookie wrote that says, I give everyone and everything over to you. And I just find myself praying that multiple times a day when I, because I'm a very anxious person, I struggle with that. And so whenever my anxiety level, and my worry level, like starts to rise, just realising I can stop in the middle of the day, and just rest in God, even if just for a few moments. So I think that's a personal challenge. I would say, you know, right now, just as I talked to a lot of worship leaders. I see so many worship leaders who are wanting who have amazing hearts, and they're pastoring their people, and they're, they're loving the Lord. But I think there's this allure, to feel like, oh, the next step is always I have to build this worship brand. And we have to release these songs. And, and maybe this, this level of success, or this definition of success that we've put for worship leaders worship, pastors, worship music, that I think sometimes the Lord gives a Church, a mantle to steward. I think the Lord gave us a mantle at elevation and a calling to steward that. But I think when that becomes your goal, and your sole metric of success, that's a very dangerous place to be. Because the Lord doesn't have that for everybody. In fact, I think it's for very few people. And so I think helping worship leaders realise, your win is to be faithful with the assignment God's given you with your people, the people that you're called to shepherd and Pastor, and yes, if you write songs, that's awesome, right and for your Church, and let your Church love to sing them and, and record them and release them for your Church. And if the Lord does want to do something with them one day, that's great, but don't hold what you see on Instagram from these other churches that you look up to and use their songs. Don't feel that you're any less because you're not doing that what you're doing is building the local Church, which is just as important and pastoring people walking through people to me that's the better thing, like an album and a Grand, that's a good thing that God can use when held and used in the right way. But building the Church is the best thing. And helping people like really be grounded in that. So I think God's allowed me coming from elevation to be able to have a voice to speak into that. And I'm really challenged to how do we build? How do we help people want to build the right thing in their churches right now?
David Mckeown 15:28
Some, some great, great insights, their weight, and I think they're probably they work not just in the worship setting, but even with leading a Church and being a Pastor, because again, pastors can look and think, Well, in order to be successful, I need to get my book guide, I need to do the conference, I needed the next thing. We're actually as you've said, and I think it's good for leaders to be aware. Like, it's not for everyone, and it's not for every Church. And that really is a good thing to be aware of. Because if not, I think we end up striving to get somewhere where we don't really fit in. So I think that that insight goes right across all leadership, I think, not just within the worship setting, you know, so lots of leaders are trying to do stuff. And actually, maybe they just didn't the wrong stuff really
Wade Joye 16:16
well, there's a there's a book that I just read by a man named Arthur C. Brooks, he wrote the book from strength to strength. And not sure if you have heard of it, but he's a professor at Harvard, he teaches on happiness. And the science of it. He's a devout Catholic, is a believer. But the book is not written from a Christian perspective, necessarily. But one of the things that he said in that book that struck me was in talking to a lot of high profile clients that he was working with, that were struggling with with happiness. He said they would say something to this effect, that they would rather be special than happy. And to me taking that from a Church context or a Christian context, I think sometimes we strive so much to feel like we are impressive or special or making this we're changing the world or whatever. And we're ignoring the thing that God has given number one entrusted to us, which is our soul, our heart, but then the people that are like having meaning and those relationships, that is what brings joy that is what brings life it's not chasing this feeling of being special. And I think what I see a lot what I've seen in my life a lot. And what I see a lot in churches and worship teams is everybody tried to be special, rather than doing the work of being content, and joyful in who God has called them to be in this season.
David Mckeown 17:44
Yeah, sounds like a great book that and maybe we'll put that in the show notes. And people can look that up as well. Yeah, hey, we just want to find out. Wade, just a little bit more about her inspires you we'd love to ask or a guest? Who inspires you who has inspired you? And why?
Wade Joye 18:06
I'm going to give you an answer that's going to earn me some brownie points. Oh, but but my wife would would really be.
David Mckeown 18:15
That's a good answer. That's a good meal tonight you're getting
Wade Joye 18:21
but I mean, she. So we have three kids that have all had their own health journeys. And so our twins were born three months premature. spent three months in the hospital, one of them was told that she had a great poor brain bleed. We were told to take her off life support because she'd never walk, talk or get out of diapers. And both of those twins they're doing amazingly well right now. Although Liana the one who had the brain bleed still has some. She's the one who has some weakness on her right side and some some things that she's still having to navigate. And then our youngest daughter Sydney has cystic fibrosis, which, you know, is is a serious condition. Thankfully, the what the Lord is allowing the medical world to uncover right now. And the new treatments have been a game changer. But there's still like daily, daily things that Cindy has to do because of her her condition. And my wife threw it all. Just when we were in the hospital, and in the day to day, she is a rock. I am the stressful one in my family. So I like I said, I'm the worrier, and we're in the hospital. If the machine started beeping, I would freak out. She would be the one that would go to it and figure out like what needed to be done. And so just seeing how steady and consistent and why she is. I don't know I just add. I love being married to someone that I admire so much. And so it's not just the easy answer. It's the it's the it's the true answer. Like that's to me been inspired by
David Mckeown 20:02
big, big brownie points. There isn't. Enough to say something.
Nathan Benger 20:10
Yeah, no, that's amazing. And what a great story as well. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, Wade, I think I'm right in saying that you are launching your podcast. Why don't you just share a little bit? Yeah.
Wade Joye 20:26
So yeah, I'm gonna be working with access more to launch a podcast looks like the first of July that first week of July. It's called dreamers and disciples. And it to me, it's the whole concept we were talking about earlier with gifting about how in the Church today, I feel like we've elevated our dream, to a place of an idol oftentimes, and God wants us to dream, God gives us dreams. But we have to dream with open hands. And we have to dream as a disciple of Dream, which is dreaming with surrender. And so to me, it's it's walking through each day and learning how to pivot from striving to surrender, and, and really stepping into God's dream for the world and for, for the Church and for our lives. And so this podcast is just gonna be just walking through what does that look like on a day to day level? Like, how do you pivot from striving to surrender? How do you dream but not like cling to your dream and be open to God's new dream? And and what does the Bible really say about purpose and calling, and assignment and contentment and all those things, so it's going to be I'm excited about it. It's, it's not going to be maybe there'll be a couple episodes that are interview, but it's not going to be an interview format, it's just going to be about 20 minute episodes of me just sharing things that I'm currently processing, and then hopefully giving some action steps that people can try. I call them pivot practices to pivot from striving to surrender. Like, what can you do each week, just to help your heart just turn a little bit more quickly to surrender when you feel that striving starting to come on?
David Mckeown 22:13
More than that sounds a great podcast that doesn't it Nathan.
Nathan Benger 22:16
Yeah, yeah. Amazing. Can't wait for it to come out. Thank you. It's great. So they made today. Go ahead. They
David Mckeown 22:26
were gonna do No, go for it. No, no, no. Are we gonna repeat his question? Still?
Nathan Benger 22:31
We are let's do it. Let's do the pledge. Let's do it. So wait, what is the one question that no one asks you that you wish they would? And what's your answer to that question?
Wade Joye 22:45
Oh, wow. Do you want to do you want a light hearted are serious one.
Nathan Benger 22:51
Or you can do whatever I want. You choose choose? You choose? Okay, we've talked
Wade Joye 22:56
about a lot of serious things. So I'll give you a give you a light hearted one what the question I wish more people asked me is what is my favourite Star Wars movie?
Nathan Benger 23:06
And your answer
Wade Joye 23:09
my answer is it's pretty easy answer honestly. episode Five Empire Strikes Back I feel like there's no other right answer. Other than that.
Nathan Benger 23:19
You're not setting your way.
Wade Joye 23:22
No, not at all. And, and here's here's a hot take that some a lot of people hate on the sequels that came out recently, especially the last Jedi I actually really liked the last Jedi. I didn't like episode nine and how everything ended but I was cool with the last Jedi so I could talk about we could do a whole nother podcast on Star Wars.
David Mckeown 23:43
Well, that could be a range but we're not holding on to that. It could be a range but just not with us. Somebody else? Yeah, but you never know. And listen, who's your favourite? Your favourite Marvel character? Because you mentioned Marvel earlier as well.
Wade Joye 24:06
Oh, that's a great great question. My my family is obsessed with Marvel like obsessed. favourite character? That's a tough one. I'm a big Thor fan.
Nathan Benger 24:22
Yes, come on. I really like Yes.
Wade Joye 24:26
I'm excited about the new movie. Yep. Also love. I love Spider Man, but I feel like that's an he's kind of Sodhi if we're talking about the MCU but yeah, so Thor is going to be my my answer.
David Mckeown 24:40
Okay, that's stick with how would you
Wade Joye 24:43
how would y'all answer?
David Mckeown 24:46
Oh yeah, I do like spider man. I have to say it's only because when I was a kid, I had spider mom but Yamas God those my let me just explain. I'm not wearing them anymore. Maybe I should bring them back. You know, we're gonna leave that one. Spider Man for me
Wade Joye 25:11
that would that could go viral. In your spider man pyjamas, the world needs
David Mckeown 25:17
to see that. see that? Well, we're just gonna leave that there. So, Wade, you'd be doing some stuff recently with churches, some stuff, right coaching and training. Do you want to just say a little bit more about that? And then we'll find out for how people can connect with you.
Wade Joye 25:36
Yeah, so I've been. I've been in this season I've been travelling to preach at churches, which I really love. And then also, I'm doing some individual and group coaching through zoom. With about three months semesters, I'm just finishing up a semester now and starting another one late summer. And then also I love to go and just work with worship teams and staff teams on site. So you can find out all the information at Wade joy.com That's J O ye people sometimes forget the deal joy. Way join.com are on Instagram at Wade joy with the E and I'd love to help and serve in any way I can. I love the local Church.
Nathan Benger 26:15
Amazing, amazing. Well, Wade, we want to thank you so much for being on the church explained podcast. And well done for picking thing or as your Marvel character. And next next episode, people you need to watch it because Dave McKeown might be in Spider Man pyjamas.
Wade Joye 26:35
Hey, I think it's a word from the Lord. At least 80% Sure.
David Mckeown 26:42
Well, I'm 80% sure it's not
Nathan Benger 26:48
well, as I've said, Wade, it's been so good to chat together. And big thank you to everyone who's listening and watching however you're consuming the content, subscribe, share it. Pass it on to your worship pastors, creative pastors, anyone you know that would be this conversation will be helpful to them. Don't forget to check out IKON dot Church for slash open for a whole load of free resources. And we look forward to seeing you next time. And hearing us next time on the church explained podcast. We'll see you soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
