#S4 EP8: Insights from Filmore Bouldes: Fostering Healthy Relationships and Staying Motivated in Ministry.
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
In part two, Filmore Bouldes, leader and church planter, shares his journey and experiences in ministry. He discusses the challenges of communicating with senior leaders, the importance of fostering a healthy marriage, and his strategies for staying motivated and avoiding comparison in the ministry world.
Filmore also shares his views on the future of preaching, the importance of prayer, and his dream of building a church that plants churches. This episode is packed with wisdom and practical advice for anyone involved in ministry.
We hope you enjoy
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Dave (36:53.646) and just picking up on that and I know one of the things that Nathan was probing you a little bit which I think is a good question is how did that conversation go when you chat with your senior leaders there I know I can see you redoubling that one so come on share a little bit you don't have to go into full detail but how was that for you was it awkward easy
Filmore Bouldes (37:05.819) Man, I tried to get rid of this question.
Filmore Bouldes (37:13.149) Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (37:17.072) Yeah.
Nathan Benger (37:17.305) Hehehe
Filmore Bouldes (37:20.839) Yeah, it was definitely awkward. It was not easy. It was awkward. It was scary. I think, yeah, and it was rough. The first one was rough. The first maybe two conversations were pretty rough, particularly because I think it just caught them off guard. And it was nothing that was probably my doing as well. I probably could have handled some things differently. Or I could have handled some things differently, not probably. So I think because of maybe the nature of that.
Um, it wasn't that they didn't see the calling in me or affirm that or think that I could do it. It was just caught them off guard. Cause I was essentially the executive pastor at the time. And then in a sense also there's probably a step that I missed before bringing it to them. Um, so yeah, I would say, you know, to whoever's listening to this, I would say as soon as you can bring your senior leaders into the thought process, even if it's not.
even if it's not crystallized yet, hey, this is what I'm thinking. I think a lot of times, because it was kind of already crystallized in my brain, but in hindsight, I wish I would have brought it to them as soon as possible. But obviously they're great leaders and gracious, and we end up coming to a great conversation, and they blessed us and laid hands on us and sent us and affirm us.
You know, so, so yeah, I would say it was scary. And I think if anyone's listened to this and you're trying to process, how do you approach that? I would say bring them into the process as soon as possible. And yeah, that's what I would say. So I hope that helps. Got it out of me. Got it out of me, Dave.
Dave (39:07.582) Yeah thanks for sharing. Yeah but thanks for sharing because it will help people as they're listening because obviously lots of people are in transition so it is good for them. I've got another question and then Nathan will chip in with another couple as well. So just thinking of one church down, I mean obviously you're dreaming, you're thinking, you and Caitlin thinking of the future. What's your dream for the next...
Nathan Benger (39:07.667) You're great.
Nathan Benger (39:12.033) hehehehehe
Filmore Bouldes (39:16.754) Thank you.
Nathan Benger (39:17.818) I'm gonna...
Dave (39:36.727) back in.
Filmore Bouldes (39:39.047) Yeah. So I want to be a church that plants churches. So even right now we're planting pregnant. So there's a church that, I mean, there's a couple, key couple on our church, on our core team that we, that basically want to plant a church. And I'm not going to wait until I feel confident in how established the church is till I train them in that.
I'm gonna train them in there right now because they don't belong to me, they belong to the Lord. So whether they're here with us for two years, five years, or 10 years, I wanna treat them right now. And also you gotta trust them. So we trust them, we know them through, mutual friends that really affirm them. So you gotta be wise about how you're investing because you don't wanna just be sending anyone out. But once all that stuff checks out.
Um, so yeah, we want to be a church that plants churches. I mean, I would love to have planted and sent out, you know, at least five churches in the next 10 years. Uh, we also want to plan a school. I think Seattle, as you guys know, uh, start a school. I think Seattle, as you know, is a progressive liberal. So what happens is a lot of parents want to either leave the city, don't move to the city or move out of state. So we have a dream of, man, what have actually
we can have a school that parents flock to the city. They want to, they actually want to be in the city because this school is a school that is a light in a secular culture. So that's a dream of mine. I think by year 10, that's like a soft goal that we could announce to the church, hey, we've either, we're in process or we're official. We have a school to serve either K through five or K through 12.
But yeah, I would say that that's the dream. I mean, we want, I want to build big people. I want people to be disciples. I think that's how my brain works. Like, I don't really know how else to answer the question. Besides, I want disciples of Christ, sorry, disciples of Christ, church plants and a school. Those are kind of the three things that are kind of on our mind. Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (42:00.671) Whether it grows to a thousand people, 500, whatever that God will sort all that out. But I think we just want to be a church that makes disciples and raises people up.
Nathan Benger (42:10.137) Great, no, really good. And just thinking of the church as a whole and the next decade in that, what do you think something similar in terms of what the church will look like as new generation comes through? What's your kind of views on that?
Filmore Bouldes (42:31.907) So I do think this is preaching and teaching related. So I do think in the next 10 years, I think the teaching style has to be more conversational. I think it's probably already like this in the UK, but in America we have preacher preachers, because everyone grow watching TD Jakes.
So, but I do think that cadence and that diction is just, it's not really working. It's for the Gen Z and below generation. So I think preachers will be a bit just more conversational in how they communicate. I think that is the future of the church, conversational teaching and preaching. Not because people are trying to be performative, but it's just how it's perceived.
when people have a preaching voice and they're yelling and all that, I think that won't translate to people. I mean, it's like Martin Luther King. If you hear Martin Luther King talk in any of his older tapes or videos, it's profound. But that style and that cadence would not work today. People would not listen to what he's saying, even though the content is amazing. So I think that's something that we'll have to think through.
And yeah, I mean, I think, man, we got to stay in prayer. I think prayer has to take a lot more priority in the church, I would say. I mean, this probably sounds very cocky of a 32 year old, one month and a half church planter to say. So that's not what I'm saying, but that's not what I'm trying to project. But I think if anything is gonna happen in the Western church, which...
we serve in the next 10 years, it's gonna happen because people are seeking the Lord in prayer. We've had strategies, books, conferences up to wazoo, and we're still on a massive decline. So it's not working. So we gotta trade and disciple people into prayer, into being people that seek the Lord. And that's really what we wanna attempt to do is.
Dave (44:36.54) the
Filmore Bouldes (44:54.847) to train people to labor in prayer. I think this is probably gonna sound controversial and I'm not trying to be controversial. So I'm gonna say that before, but I think people need to learn more how to labor in prayer than they need to learn how to rest. That's my conviction. Because we just, we're not good at praying. I'm not good at praying. A lot of people aren't good at praying, but we have to learn how to, to labor in prayer. It's the thing that...
is the most influential and powerful in our spiritual walk, but it's also the thing that people are most afraid of, less confident in, and I wanna give my life to teach people how to pray. So I think prayer emphasis, and church planting prayer emphasis, I think every church needs a prayer meeting in the next 10 years, and I think just building, just yeah, conversational style teaching, and then obviously, this is already said, emphasis on discipleship, more discipleship.
Dave (45:50.85) here.
Filmore Bouldes (45:52.439) That's event-based model. Yeah.
Dave (45:57.296) And if I can pick up on that conversational style preaching, are you in your mind, is that still on the stage in front of a group of people, but more just laid back and as you say, conversational rather than like the certain cadence?
Filmore Bouldes (46:17.391) Yeah, I mean, you guys, you guys are being kind. You know how Americans preach. They yell at you. They yell at people. You probably are one of them. You know that would not work in the UK. Do you know anyone in the UK that yells? You probably don't. Probably one person you can think of. Yeah.
Nathan Benger (46:21.485) Thanks for watching!
Dave (46:23.306) Yeah
Nathan Benger (46:24.621) Hehehehe
Dave (46:35.733) that there'd be a few. I mean, the thing is with people like TD Jakes, amazing, amazing preachers and speakers.
Nathan Benger (46:37.204) Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (46:43.187) Yeah, he's one of the best of all time.
Dave (46:46.006) God, in reality when I listen to TD Jakes, I think, oh, that's like for me, that's 10 sermons there. So rather than one, that's what I think. I think, oh, there's enough content for a whole year rather than one sermon.
Filmore Bouldes (47:02.591) But also here's why as well, because I think a conversational approach makes the GIF more approachable. So no one can be as good as TD Jakes, because he's ridiculous. He's 1% of communicator. Judah Smith, 1% of communicators. Like, Steven Furtick, 1%. Tim Keller even.
So, but when you approach, I'm not saying your content shouldn't be engaging, I'm not talking about content. I think it needs tension, it needs, the gospel needs to be there, Jesus needs to be exhorted. You need to be able to engage people mentally and emotionally. But I think a conversational style approach makes the person think, oh, I feel a call to do it. I can do that.
Nathan Benger (47:42.745) Hmm.
Nathan Benger (48:01.305) Mm-hmm.
Filmore Bouldes (48:01.463) I can't do what T.D. Jakes does. I can't do what Stephen Furtick does. But I can do, I can be myself. I can have a conversation with people. And that's what I wanna do. I wanna raise up communicators and teachers that tell the message of Jesus and the story of Jesus and the gospel of Jesus. So that's what I would say. Also, can I share another hot take? Okay.
Dave (48:21.742) Okay, yeah, good stuff, good stuff.
Nathan Benger (48:22.649) That's great.
Nathan Benger (48:26.873) Mmm.
Dave (48:26.902) Yeah, go for it.
Filmore Bouldes (48:29.223) Here's what I would say about congregants and it's unfair. And here's what I would say to pastors and congregants as well. Because everything is so we're so exposed to so much information, you can at the drop of the dime, you can listen to your favorite podcaster. What happens is we project. The quality or the giftedness of said podcaster onto our local church pastor, and it's not fair. Stop doing it.
The reason that you know who this person is, is because they are the top 1% in the world. There's thousands of pastors that you've never heard that are faithful, that preach the word. I'm not talking about, you know, if your pastor doesn't preach the gospel, but they're faithful to the, yeah. Be faithful to the scripture. Stop judging your pastor against John Mark Comer, Tim Keller, Stephen Furtick, cheating. Like it's not fair.
Dave (49:11.03) Yeah, we hear you. Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (49:22.139) It's not fair. You should not be trying to get that from your pastor. They need to be faithful to the word. But if they are, you need to lean into that. But then also, us as communicators, we need to stop judging ourselves against these people because we're not them. They're 1%. It's like some people have five talents. Some people have one. That's OK. Be OK with your one and use it. Just wanted to say that. It's a pet peeve of mine. I got a lot of opinions. Sorry. You guys are going to.
Nathan Benger (49:33.313) Yeah.
Dave (49:44.718) I like it. I like it. Yeah.
Nathan Benger (49:45.985) Yeah, great.
Dave (49:52.545) We like it.
Filmore Bouldes (49:53.435) Americans are opinionated, obviously.
Nathan Benger (49:53.794) That's great.
Dave (49:57.174) So hey Nathan we've got a couple of questions here. Let me nip in with this one then. I've just been thinking about, obviously you've shared about your journey and you've shared about like some of the things that are important to you. But like what are you doing for yourself personally? Cause I think this will help you. What are you doing personally to I guess stay in the game, stay motivated. Lots of people are dropping out. So what keeps you motivated? What keeps you in the game in the season?
Filmore Bouldes (50:05.82) Mm-hmm.
Filmore Bouldes (50:22.216) Yeah, I mean...
Filmore Bouldes (50:27.719) Yeah, I mean, I'm 32. I've been a minister for 10 years since 2013 in vocational ministry. So, you know, I still, I'm young, right? So like, I don't want to project that I have all the answers. But I think what I am doing personally is anytime someone asks me how they can pray, I'm not asking for anything they can pray for the church. I'm saying pray for me and my wife, the health of a marriage.
Filmore Bouldes (50:58.647) It says emotionally healthy leader leads out of their marriage. So I think, yeah, I just want to be more than anything, I want to be a great husband to stay in the game. Because I think if the home is secure and it's safe, and you're tending to that garden, out of the overflow of that, you will be a healthy leader. I pray. I pray in tongues. I don't know what tradition people are from listening to this, but for me, it builds up my spirit.
I take Paul literally when he says that. Uh, he says, when you pray in a tongue, you speak and you build up your spirit. So I see it as workouts for my spirit. My spirit needs to be worked out. So I think it gives me a strength and the vitality. Uh, we cannot do ministry with our giftings only. We cannot do ministry with our, uh, ingenuity and our creativity. Uh, we need the power, not by my, not by power, but by the spirit. So for me, I'll lean into that. I think another thing that I'm doing, I repent.
as much as I pray. So I confess. So I personally, I pray through the Lord's prayer. And as like part of my liturgy, I actually pray with a liturgy. I pray the same thing every day. Actually, I just changed it about two weeks ago. But for a while, I literally pray the same thing every day. I have a bit of freestyle in there. But um, but yeah, I know what I'm praying for. I'm praying. I'm confessing my sin.
Nathan Benger (52:19.897) Mm.
Filmore Bouldes (52:26.207) keeps my spirit light. But yeah, I think for me as well, staying in the game, I'm not really listening to many podcasts at the moment or sermons. I unfollowed a lot of pastors because I don't want to compare. I think a lot of people get out of the game because they compare. So I personally just took a season to not follow anyone or listen to any of the podcast. There's a few, like the OGs, older people.
I still listen to Tim Keller, obviously, because he's Tim Keller. But not anyone that's current or new. I wouldn't. I don't do that. And then, yeah, I think playing basketball and doing things that I enjoy and building and then relationships. But you're right. People are getting out of the game and it's scary. A hero. Well, I don't want to say hero, but someone I looked up to just find out something about them with a potential scandal and it's shaking me to my boots.
Nathan Benger (52:58.326) Yeah, yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (53:26.371) And I would say anyone listen to this too, like when you hear these scandals, whether it's in the UK or in the US, I think a language we have to get out of our vocabulary is I would never or how could they? I don't think that's the confession of a believer. I think the confession of a believer is Lord, lead me not into temptation and deliver me from evil. Cause whatever is in them is also in us. So it should not make us proud or not.
Nathan Benger (53:38.969) Hmm.
Filmore Bouldes (53:55.211) cause us to boast, but it should cause us to be in humility and fear the Lord. Go to prayer. So.
Dave (54:03.438) Portland. Nathan, over to you.
Nathan Benger (54:04.473) No, great stuff. Yeah, yeah. What would you say if you could only give one message to people and what would that be in one sentence? And I know Phil Moore, you're a preacher, but you've got one sentence.
Yeah
Filmore Bouldes (54:21.199) One sentence, your identity, your identities is secure in Christ and your identity is not in what you do and your identity is also not in how people perceive you. That's probably what I would say. I had a dad that modeled this for me, who spoke that over me, and I believe it.
Nathan Benger (54:23.957) be a long sentence though mate.
Dave (54:50.42) Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (54:50.627) It shit me, you know, I don't, I don't really struggle with insecurity. Uh, as a, I've never been crippled by it. Uh, I've, I can never say I've been crippled by it. I've struggled with it, but it's never crippled me. Uh, and it's, it's because of the Holy spirit and because of a great dad. Um, so I would say that.
Dave (55:11.054) love that love that hey well listen it's been so good to have you on the show we've got a few quickfire questions we'll not go through them all but we'll pick a few of our favorite ones here as we go through and just to keep you sharp this afternoon well afternoon for us morning for you so let's kick off with this one a couple of quickfire questions what two books would you recommend and why?
Filmore Bouldes (55:25.724) Oh wow, keep me sharp.
Nathan Benger (55:28.953) Hmm.
Filmore Bouldes (55:35.167) Two books I would recommend is Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire by Jim Symbola. He is a pastor in Brooklyn, leads a church called Brooklyn Tyronical. Probably one of the biggest, most influential churches in the East Coast that not many people actually may know about. But the book is basically how he started the church. He inherited a church that was dying. The Lord told him to build it on prayer meetings. And to this day, about 30 years later.
They do two prayer meetings every Tuesday and they get thousands of people there at the prayer meeting. And he just it's inspiring. Like if you want your spirit to come alive about what God can do, you need to read this book. The second book I would probably suggest is another book that I currently read. It's Landmarks by David Campbell. David Campbell is he planted a church in the UK. He is on the Theos.
university faculty, which people may know. But landmarks is just his doctrinal book. It basically goes through every major doctrine. And it's good. It's really good. It's really helpful. So obviously, I'm suggesting it as a church planter. And I would say landmarks. So those two books. But Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire is a must. If you've never read that, I don't know what you're doing. You need to go to Amazon right now.
Dave (56:34.222) Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Nathan Benger (56:52.877) Right.
Dave (56:57.538) I like it.
Nathan Benger (57:01.825) Right? I've ordered it.
Filmore Bouldes (57:02.047) Pass the jail. You can give me commission.
Dave (57:02.114) Get it, get it.
Nathan Benger (57:05.857) Yeah, I've already got it up on my phone. Just done it.
Dave (57:07.214) You've just ordered it.
Filmore Bouldes (57:09.203) Yeah, it's so good.
Nathan Benger (57:13.638) Philmore, if you could travel anywhere in the world, where would you go and why?
Filmore Bouldes (57:19.659) I would go to Korea with my wife because I've never been and it's her homeland, her motherland. So I'd love to go. We watch a lot of K-dramas, so I would like to just go experience some of the places we see on the dramas and also see her in her element. So yeah, I'd love to go there.
Nathan Benger (57:36.889) Great.
Dave (57:40.914) Yeah, fantastic. And a couple more then. This could be an obvious one, but I'm going to ask it anyway. What's your favorite food and why do you like it?
Filmore Bouldes (57:53.231) Ooh, my favorite food. My favorite food. I mean, the bad answer, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna be honest, I don't wanna give you a sophisticated answer. Cause I know UK, you guys are more healthy than Americans. We have obesity problems here. My favorite food is pizza. It's nostalgic. Pizza parties are my fondest memories of elementary school or grammar school. I don't know what you guys call it there.
Dave (58:02.722) Give us the answer.
Dave (58:11.116) Okay. Yeah.
Nathan Benger (58:13.785) Hmm.
Filmore Bouldes (58:23.259) Anytime you were good or behaved well in school as a kid, the teachers would reward you with pizza parties. And that was like my fondest memories of school. So it's always nostalgic to me.
Dave (58:36.982) So I like that answer but I'm not going to give you any brownie points. I thought you were going to say like Korean food, you know what I mean? Some noodles or something. You've missed your opportunity. Do you know what I mean? You've missed it.
Filmore Bouldes (58:43.181) Oh, yeah, I mean.
Nathan Benger (58:47.565) Yeah.
Filmore Bouldes (58:49.011) Korean barbecue is second on a... Yeah. Korean fried chicken is also really good, but it's only good because they learned it from African-Americans in the war. So that's all I'm saying. Oh, no.
Dave (58:51.19) That's gotta be good! Korean BBQ's gotta be good!
Nathan Benger (58:52.857) Hmm.
Dave (59:00.026) Oh, okay, okay. You gotta know where it comes from. Yeah, I can imagine.
Filmore Bouldes (59:03.763) That's the actual fact, you can look that up. Uh, that's great.
Nathan Benger (59:04.795) Yeah
Nathan Benger (59:09.111) Awesome, awesome. Last one, if you could have any superpower, what would it be and why?
Filmore Bouldes (59:16.679) If I could have any superpower, what could it be and why? I mean, I would definitely want to fly. I mean, who would not want to fly? You could be, I could be in Korea right now and then maybe be back here for, you know, church. Yeah, exactly. That would be amazing. I would love to fly. Yeah. Oh man, this was so fun. Thanks for having me.
Dave (59:31.116) at the end of the podcast.
Nathan Benger (59:33.118) Yeah.
Nathan Benger (59:40.601) Great.
Dave (59:40.726) It's been good. Yeah, yeah, we appreciate it. And we're cheering you guys on with a new church planter. Praying for you guys, praying for your marriage as you've asked. And we hope anybody who listens to this podcast will pray for you guys. That's that's our challenge, I think, today for anybody who listens to the podcast. Take away some stuff, but give them to pray for you guys. That would be fantastic.
Filmore Bouldes (59:54.123) Yep. Yeah.
Nathan Benger (59:55.83) Hehehehe
Filmore Bouldes (01:00:02.239) I would love that. That would be a huge blessing. And thanks for enduring my rambling as well.
Nathan Benger (01:00:08.909) No, it's been great. Philmore, what's the best way for people to connect with you?
Filmore Bouldes (01:00:14.599) Yeah, I would say with me, they can hop on Instagram, Fillmore Boats, F-I-L-M-O-R-E, B-O-U-L-D-E-S. And then with the church, One Church NW, on Instagram as well, you can find all the links and stuff. So yeah, follow me, follow the church, and we'd love to connect with you. And if you know anyone in Seattle that's not connected to a local church, send them our way.
Nathan Benger (01:00:40.885) Yeah, definitely, definitely. Well, it's been so great to be together today and just wanna say a big thank you to everyone who's listening. And remember to rate, review, subscribe, wherever you're consuming this content, leave a review, helps us, and share it with someone who you know that would be blessed with that. But it's been great to be together, great to have Phil more with us, and we look forward to seeing you next time on the Church Explained podcast.
Filmore Bouldes (01:01:09.567) See you guys.
