CEP 16: With Guest Andy Hopper. How To Grow A Healthy Church
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Episode: 16 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us for this episode to gain new ideas from Andy Hopper, who heads up the Hillsong Leadership Network.
This is one you do not want to miss.
FULL TRANSCRIPT
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, welcome to the Church explained podcast conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church. We're excited today, we're gonna focus around this idea of how to grow a healthy Church. And we've got an amazing gas from Hillsong that work on the hopper. So let's get ready for the show today.
David Mckeown 0:25
Hey, what's so good today to have on the hopper with his he's going to be on the podcast today, it's going to be an exciting podcast on the is the team leader of the Hillsong Leadership Network, an important role. And he does a lot of stuff around connecting with leaders training, really trying to help churches grow and their principles and practices to get them really that healthy place. So we're going to touch on some of that stuff today. Just say Andi is originally from the UK, that's what we've been told, come although Let's listen to his accent. If he really is from the UK, maybe two or something. Let's find out in a minute. His wife is Naomi. And they live in Sydney. And they've got three young kids. So on a welcome to the Church explained podcast. It's so good to have you.
Andy Hopper 1:15
Yeah, it's great to be here. Thank God for technology that allows us to chat and distribute this out. So wherever you're listening in the world,
Nathan Benger 1:22
yeah, it's amazing. Andy, why don't you just tell us a little bit more about yourself when you move to? Maybe Australia and your family and your role?
Andy Hopper 1:34
Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I did grow up near Birmingham. I don't have the Brummie accent never did. But in Solihull and moved to Australia when I was 19 years old, or by myself. And so I've been here now for nearly 16 years. And so I met my wife, Naomi, while I was studying here at Hillsong. College. And so she's a Latina, from the USA. And so it's a bit of a blend of cultures of, of English and Latina and American living in Australia. And we've got three young kids that six, three and two are Wow. And it's so so that's fun. That's been 18 months of lockdown with them. And so yes, I moved in 16 years ago, did Hillsong college, worked for a property developer and a small business coach after that, and then eight years ago, joined the staff of Hillsong. Church. Yeah. Wow.
David Mckeown 2:38
Fantastic. So you must have been from the posh part of Birmingham, then worry if you didn't have an accent?
Andy Hopper 2:46
That's that's what they do, say of Sally Hall.
David Mckeown 2:50
Well Say no more yet. So listen, tell us a little bit about, you know, you've mentioned about your journey going to hell song you went to I think Hillsong college, you were saying there? Tell us a little bit more maybe bite? what it's like being in Hillsong in Sydney, and about your role, your current role? That would be great for our listeners to hear today.
Andy Hopper 3:13
Yeah, for sure. Well, I guess the role, you know, it's quite diverse, as I'm sure most people's roles are. But ultimately, it's the it's the show people behind the scenes of hell song, what we do why we do it, because I think people could look at Hillsong, particularly as it's grown over the last few decades, and they look at it as this big corporate Church, where it's like, if you've got questions, where would I? Where would I ask those questions to? Who could I possibly get in contact with to find things out? And so the cool thing about the network existing is that our board and senior pastors have it on their heart to champion the cause of local churches everywhere. And so whereas we, as a team are able to answer those questions and facilitate those answers, and also facilitate relationship with leaders around the world, so that we can hang out together, or at least pre COVID, we could, and they can really catch the culture of Hillsong. And so, you know, one of the things I did during COVID was kind of really narrow down what, you know, what is it that I would say, What's that one sentence in terms of what is it that I do? And I came up with this, and it's that I facilitate environments where leaders can catch Hillsong culture, facilitate environments where leaders can catch your song culture. And so prior to COVID, that incorporated quite a bit of travel. And now it's more through zoom and podcast, podcast and things like that. But that's the, you know, that's kind of the vague answer to it. And maybe something that's helpful is something that in inspired me, being part of Hillsong having come from a smaller Church from a new frontiers Church, particularly based in the UK and Then, you know, for me, I would go to the Global Leadership Summit, my mom would take me out of school as a 14 year old to go to Global Leadership Summit. Then when I was 17, read purpose driven Church, and kind of redesigned our youth ministry along those lines, and then came to study at Hillsong. And so for me, I feel like I have this ecumenical mindset of learning from everyone and, and there is no perfect way of doing Church and just wanting to help as many people as possible. And so I heard this story from Ilan musk. And so, you know, used to we used to say that Elan Musk, we knew of him because of like Tesla, now it's because of SpaceX and all and naming his kid and all these other kinds of things and, and cryptocurrency and whatever. But he was he was asked on it on a late night TV show, he was asked why he'd given the patents to Tesla a way to all of his competitors. So yes, all this IP that Tesla had created about the electric vehicles, why are they giving it away to all of these other competitors? And he gave us really powerful answer. And he gave this analogy of, if you're on a sinking ship, and you discover this, like secret design for a baler, you know, like a bucket that's going to get, you know, twice as much water out, then then the guy behind you, is like, you'd be crazy not to share that with everyone else. Because ultimately, like the ship's going down, like the ship's gonna sink unless you do and so to relay that to, to, you know, electric vehicles in the environment. He's obviously obviously saying like Tesla can't do it all by themselves, is like they need all of the car makers to go on this journey with them. And so that really inspired me about the thought of the Church and about Hillsong Church and these other churches that I mentioned and networks that exist, and podcasts like this, is it's all about equipping one another and sharing these these things that we've learned along the way that are going to help all of us stop this sick, you know, not that the ship is sinking. But, you know, like, the world is sinking, and we've all got to work together. It's It can't just be like Hillsong has got this great idea of how churches done and we're not going to tell anyone else, or you know, Life Church, or you name it. Yeah, we've got to share that stuff. And so that's the heart of our senior pastors Brian and Bobby Houston. It's what I very fortunate to get to essentially spend my whole life doing through the network. And it's a huge privilege.
Nathan Benger 7:32
That's amazing. And what a great What a great attitude to have, in terms of building the Church, you mentioned there around, lots of churches and leaders will ask you questions. So I wonder if you just touch on maybe some of the most frequently asked questions that you get, and like, are they around certain topics?
Andy Hopper 7:54
Yeah, yeah, it's great. You know, I think, generally, you know, people were being, I guess, impressed by Hillsong. And some of the branding and communication and the worship, maybe, but when they kind of get down to nitty gritty, the things that the three things that they're always asking, are essentially, how do we do small groups better? and discipleship? How do we, you know, get more volunteers, we don't have enough volunteers. And three, how do we look after new people, it kind of always boils down to those kinds of three things, small groups, volunteers, and new people. And, you know, I think generally, leaders can be looking for a little bit of like, you know, talk about the silver bullet as like, What's this? What's this system or this programme, or the software that Hillsong uses or that this other Church uses this programme, and that's going to solve all of our problems. And the truth is this. There's nothing like that and and what people don't realise maybe about Hillsong is just how hard we just work at those things. Like it's just good old hard work, sweat, energy, analysis and work. And there's there's nothing really glamorous or super secret about that. It's just that we love people, we love discipling people, we believe that people's lives are going to get bigger if they serve others and serve God serve the Church. And so we just worked really, really hard at those things. And so I guess people think that you know, maybe the secret to Hillsong is our our worship or certain preaching style. But it's actually just working really hard at the same thing that every other Church has to work hard out small groups, volunteers, and looking after new people. And then and then probably one of the other things that more recently people start asking about is is how do you start reproducing you know your culture all around the world as he'll songs opened up so many more locations, in different cities and nations around the world. It's just like, I think people are often Yeah, kind of surprised that it's possible or wonder how that works in terms of reproducing that same culture of like this feels like home wherever you are in the world.
David Mckeown 10:01
So just pick it up on that, because that's a great place just to think through a little bit. Hi, do you do that? Because obviously, if you, you know, put aside the small groups, the volunteers and the teams, I think they're, they're essential. If we think of multi site churches, or just maybe even churches who maybe just even want to open another campus somewhere, maybe they're not going to become a major multi site, but they think, okay, we want to plant somewhere, we want to do something. We want to carry the same culture. For you guys, then what? I know there's no silver bullet. But what what would you say? Is the the common ingredient?
Andy Hopper 10:39
Yeah, yeah, it's a great point you make about it's not just about planting churches on the other side of the world, but it could even just be, you know, starting an evening service from just having a morning service. Yeah, bro, starting a second morning service, some of those things that still needs to be reproduced even just an hour and a half later. But, you know, it is an enormous question. And it you know, we could do a whole week long seminar on it, really. And if it was easy, then everyone will be doing it. But I think there are, there are some aspects that maybe are undervalued that I could share on. And you know, and just humbly, from my experience, because it's really Brian and Bobby are the ones that are the the genius behind it. But I think the first thing for us is that we our goal is the for it to be the same culture. So whether it's a morning and night service, or it's a campus in another part of city or nation is it's actually our goal, that it would be the same culture, because because not every movement does it like that. And not every movement has to do it like that. Or Church, there's so many models of doing it. But what you'd hear at Hillsong is that we're one house and many rooms. And so if that is our goal, that we are one house, we're one Church, then that means that we are aiming for the same culture, in every service campus nation. And then to take this picture of the house, which which Pastor Bobby so beautifully talks about and about, because a house alludes to a family, a family living in a house. And so that's what Hillsong is, it's it's sons and daughters of the house. And so oftentimes, you see in these new locations that we're we're starting in, is it's a son and daughter of the house that has been sent to, to plant that Church to expand the culture. And so the thing about a son and daughter in in Hillsong, is oftentimes they've been part of Hillsong for 10 1520 plus years. Yeah. And so they, then they are the culture, it's not just like, they know it theoretically, or they read the book on it, it's like they, they've proven themselves to be the culture. And now it's a very low risk sending them over there, because they they are us. They, they almost like they unconscious, unconsciously, just be the culture. And so you know, at Hillsong, there is no, you know, rulebook or 1000 rules, and for every single scenario, this is how you do it. But there's just kind of gut instinct, reactions where things happen, or people suggest things or you see something and go, Ah, you know, that's, that's not who we are. That's not the way we do it. So So I guess all that to say, sometimes, like, I encourage churches that are maybe three, five years old, that want to plant a Church, whether it's on the other side of the city, or other side of the world, it's like, it's you just got to accept that that's going to be hard work. I'm not saying don't do it. But it's gonna require massive intentionality, because you only have maybe two years, three years, five years worth of inculturation, your your sons and daughters of the house are only, you know, a few years into it, there might be toddlers to use to use that picture. And so, you know, so one of the things about Hillsong is that really like the first 2025 years, is we didn't really plan that many Hillsong locations we did, we did plant churches, but we didn't plant a lot of Hillsong locations within that first 20 years. But now you see the last decade and how it's expanded like crazy. But it's because there's this whole generation of sons and daughters that have grown up in born saved into the culture, yeah, and are now able to expand it relatively rapidly. Because it's just who they were not hiring someone in from the outside and giving them the playbook. It's it's just who they are.
Nathan Benger 14:30
I think that's amazing. Some such great thought around sons and daughters of the house and carrying that culture I think is amazing. Just in terms of your role and overseeing that Hillsong Leadership Network, I guess you've seen the temptation for leaders to copy from Hillsong are their successful, fruitful churches. I wonder if you talk a little bit about whether that's okay. Or if it's not okay and just the reasoning behind that. Great question.
Andy Hopper 15:02
Yeah, yes, it's great question. Yeah, I think I think it comes depends on where, where your heart is. So there's, I'd say there's two sides to it. So there's the side of your we're going to learn from and copy and other, you know, successful Church influential Church, because like, like the Elan musk example of like, because of the mission, the mission demands, and we want to use everything that we possibly can to achieve the mission, or there's the side of going that's, you know, I, I can't be bothered to think for myself for what might work. And so I'm just gonna look around and see what anyone else is doing. Well, yeah, I'm just gonna look for that silver bullet, so I don't have to work as hard. So I think there's, it depends on the spirit with which you bring you bring to it. But I think if you if you do have the right spirit, then I think it's about being able to distinguish between something that Pastor Robert Ferguson, who's our, who's our teaching Pastor at Hillsong, he calls the three P's. And so actually, when he referenced it, I think maybe in your introduction in my bio, in terms of teaching churches, the principles and the practices, yeah, and so those are actually the the first and the third piece of it, these three P's are the principles, the patterns, and the practices. And so Pastor Robert, he talks about principles as being these these eternal principles that work in all situations or circumstances for eternity, you've got pans that work at certain times. And in certain circumstances that aren't, you know, some of them might be eternal, kind of God breathed, and some might not. And then you've got practices that are really just kind of manmade, they work only in specific times, and certain in certain circumstances. And so if I were to break that down for you give you an example of say, a Church copies Hillsong, that has a heart and soul night. And so they go, you know, Hillsong, does heart and soul nights, and therefore if we do that, we will grow, we will be healthy, we'll be successful, whatever. And they don't realise, well, that's just a practice that's, that's something that we've invented for now. And in a year's time, could completely change how we do it. But then there's there's the pattern. So a pattern is a level above that. And it's it alludes to something a bit more eternal, something that is more reproducible, throughout history throughout Church, which is that there is a core to your Church, that are looking for inspiration and being part of a community. And then there's an overarching principle, which is that, you know, community that were made for community that God has designed the Church to serve one another, and for it to be a body and a family. And so, so all that say, if you go, well, we're going to do a heart and soul night, but there's actually no answer, you use the logo and the branding and whatever. But when you get to it, there's no sense of this is family. This is fun. This is a level of vulnerability, transparency, community building. You know, you know, if you haven't got that, right, ultimately comes from a revelation. And so I think that's the thing of people, you know, copy from Hillsong, copy from life, Church, or Saddleback, or whoever, but try and get their original revelation of like, why are they doing it like that? What was their reason for deciding it to look like that? And and does that resonate with you? Is that the way that you, does that resonate with the revelation that God's given you for how your Church is to function? And so, so in terms of copying, I think, you know, essentially, my role is to encourage people to to copy Hillsong. But the thing is that Instagram is, is it's a blessing and a curse. Yeah, because I've seen over the last, you know, few years, as Instagram has grown so big as that is that people can see, they see these other churches on Instagram, they see the crowd shots, and that you know, the best shots and all those kinds of things and the branding for an event. And they go, yeah, we're gonna do that. And they don't understand all the decisions that went in from that, that influential Church of why are they doing like that? What are the things they've wrestled with? What are the things they've said, we're not going to do it like that we're going to do it like this because of the revelation that they have. And so if you just copy if you haven't done any of that deep working yourself to look at those three principles as how does this work with the principles that we believe that the kingdom of God and the Church needs to be built on the patterns that God uses, and then the practices that are going to work in 2022 in Sydney, that are going to be different to you know, 1996 in London? Yeah, and we got to wrestle with those things and and Instagram kind of bypasses a whole lot of that and so people can be copying for the wrong reasons and, and copying the wrong things really,
Nathan Benger 19:51
is great.
David Mckeown 19:52
Yeah, some great insights around that practices and patterns. We've been talking a little bit about that our sales Yeah, Church. So that's been useful for us as well, right here. I mean, one of the things you said there, and it was the fact that, you know, you're there to encourage people to copy Hill song, and copy the best practices. But I guess really the heart of it is really to dig down and get what is the principle? Because that's the thing you're sharing, you know, rather than just picking something up from Instagram or somewhere like that, hey, we're gonna dig deeper? Or maybe maybe that's a good thing for leaders to ask, question. You know, what, what is the precision before this? Because sometimes leaders can look, and they can think, well, that looks great. I'm going to do that next Tuesday in my Church, but they haven't really wrestled with, you know, how did they get there? And I guess that's a good thing for people to think through. What do you think?
Nathan Benger 20:46
Yeah, definitely. I think it's just going back to that whole why? why we're doing something. And that principle behind, you know, like, so what would you say to maybe a Pastor who comes to you, and they want to be more like Hillsong Church? Or maybe another influential Church? And what what would be like your conversation with them?
Andy Hopper 21:11
Yeah, well, I always start by, you know, acknowledging that it is beautiful that they would want to try and reproduce something of another Church, when it's, you know, if they're reproducing something of heaven that they see displayed in that Church. Hopefully, it's they're not just copying, just like, you know, secular marketing practice, but they see a glimpse of light, or there's something in your atmosphere, or your culture, or the way in which you do discipleship that echoes something of heaven. And so can you tell me more about it, I'd love it, I'd love us to look more like, really, they're saying it's like, I'd love to look more like heaven and the Kingdom of God more than there's just like a Church that's kind of a layer in there. But really what they see is see through that, as they see heaven. I remember there was an example of a very globally significant Church that I'm sure like 99% of your listeners and viewers would know. And, and one of their team asked me about how Hillsong did guest relations, which is really like hosting, if there's a guest speaker that's coming through and speaking on a Sunday. And so they'd experienced what that what that felt like at Hillsong. And so their team, were asking me like, Hey, can you give us like the playbook and the map out because we want to start doing our guest relations the way that you do it. And that's what I said to them was like, yo, we can set up a conversation so you can understand some of the stuff behind the scenes why we do that. And it's beautiful that you would say that of our Church. But what you've got to understand, and it comes back to this kind of the principles and the revelation is that the way we look after our guests and our guest speakers, is the exact same way that Pastor Bobby, our senior Pastor would look after anyone who visited her house. So it's not like we just have the all these ideas and practices of, of what we do, because they're a guest speaker. And we've just invented that out of nowhere, that originates out all the way back to a Hillsong Church with dozens of people. And Pastor Bobby and the revelation of the Church, being a home a Church, being a family hospitality, welcome a sense of Welcome home, you belong here. And so she does that for one person in our home. And we're able to just replicate that for a guest speaker. But also we're replicating that for 1000s of people that come to Church into an auditorium on a weekend is that Pastor boy would say, you're coming into our lounge or coming into Pastor Brian Bobby's lounge room, if people come to our conference, whether it be in an arena, you know, in Sydney, or London or New York and 20,000 people is that you're getting the same kind of welcome that you're getting from possible if you were in a home. And so any Church that's kind of you're looking to learn from Hillsong is as Iran so you as a senior Pastor, or if it's one of their team members is well what does their senior What does your senior Pastor want? What are they like? What is their personality? What are their values? And so because you're you're not necessarily going to be able to reproduce Hillsong unless it's actually deep inside it's one of your values and the principles that you believe that your Church should be built on. So I kind of always kind of put it back onto people and go well like Who who are you like discover who you are? What does guest relations look like for you? What does connect groups look like for you? What does a service run sheet look like for you it's gonna come out of you as a person and what God's told you not from what God's told someone else? Amazing.
David Mckeown 24:38
Yeah, yeah, man. That's great stuff there. On the I like that idea that a sexy, it's in the person, isn't it? Yeah. And I suppose that's discipleship, as well that's a disabled show, runs and works, isn't it, you know, it needs to be inside the person for it to be seen. And just to have that idea of the heist as a great image. And maybe that's something that leaders can be asking themselves as well. Like what what I'm, what am I replicating? Or what are people replicating for me is a big thing as well, because often of it's not in the Church, the question we have to go back to is, is it in the leader? Yeah. And that's not a judgement. But that's just a reality check. You know, you can't say to, you know, people in a Church, Hey, be super generous. The leaders aren't super generous. It just just doesn't work doesn't have a playbook on this, you say to say do these five things. But they don't have it's not in the leaders. Yeah, it will never transpire elsewhere. Well, it No, no, no. Hey, hey, another question. We're just thinking on this idea of networks and leaders. And you know, it's an important thing for leaders to have networks we're what would you say is the value? Mavs, you're dealing with a lot of churches, some who are part of the Hillsong network, some are exploring, you know, you're probably dealing with lots of people at different stages of their journey. What would you say is the importance of being connected to a network on the?
Andy Hopper 26:04
Yeah, yeah, I think something I noticed as I took on this role, and start to get to know more leaders is just finding that so many of them are lonely. I think he also is a little bit sheltered in that because we are this big, large family of all these locations, and in cities and nations is that you have all these peers, as a key leader, you have all these peers that you can rely on. But for a lot of senior leaders, if you're the senior Pastor, and you're kind of a Church by yourself, is there's no one else you can be vulnerable with, you can share what's really going on with and so it can really feel like you're alone, no one understands you. And and there's no one that you can share and be transparent width. And so I think the value of a network is that you can have other people at your level level of leadership, the Church can be different sizes, but understanding the weight that you both feel, yeah, that you can just be real around you can find your tribe, people that that you can be comfortable with, you can be yourself with, I think that's incredibly important for leaders. So I'd say that's one thing is just noticing, you know, even pre COVID just leadership can be lonely, if you choose to allow it to continue to be lonely, it doesn't have to be. The thing about the network is, you know, I've mentioned a few times is this idea of really just not needing to reinvent the wheel is that there's other people that have tried other things and have analysed and learn stuff. And so rather than going through all the same process yourself, is that you can learn from others and, and the value of being a network is it's not just about you, you receiving information from someone else, but you can also pass it on to others. Yeah, and so it's reciprocal, and you build this web, this network where everyone's learning and helping with one another. And then I guess the one of the final things, I think, is, depending on the kind of network that you're part of it, it also just helps in the calendar of it puts brakes and, and these milestones in your calendar of whatever events those are, if it's maybe it's an annual conference or a monthly webinar, just put something in your calendar, where you go, yeah, I'm going to keep learning, I'm going to rest I'm going to refresh myself, hopefully you're an environment that's going to re energise you, and inspire you not bring you down. And sadly, maybe some denominations when you hang out with one another, it brings you down more than it lifts you. And so sometimes, you know, experience that have some denominations, some churches that come to Hillsong network to be re energised and refreshed because they they can't necessarily get that from their own denomination, which is sad. And so I think between those three things, I think it can be really valuable being part of a network. Yeah.
Nathan Benger 28:49
Now some great thoughts and been some great thoughts throughout the podcast. Just to finish on the I wonder if you'd had any advice for anyone who may be looking at starting a network or even for someone who's, you know, leading a network and just any advice for anyone in that situation?
Andy Hopper 29:08
Yeah, well, yeah, my first piece of advice don't do it. Not really. But a little bit, no, I I would check with people with like, is there is there already demand for what you believe God's put on your heart? Like, is there people that are already you know, knocking on your door asking questions asking you for coffee? That is there. Is there a sense of a hunger for what it is that you have to offer? That's really, you know, Hillsong network started out of that was just that as Hillsong was gaining more traction around the world, and people were asking questions, and Christine Caine was actually leading it back in the day. And it's like you there's only so many coffee catch ups you can have there's only so many emails you can respond to. And so the way of putting the network were together was to kind of let leverage some of our resources to be able to help as many people as possible. And so I would ask that question to people have, is there already a demand? Or is it just just a thought in your head? And no one's actually asking you those questions yet. But assuming that there is some demand and people are looking to you, is that every network's going to be so different, and you can really shape it to what you want it to look like. And so I thought at some of these things of that you might want to think of in terms of your network, and whether it's designing from scratch or reshaping it. Yeah. Or even during COVID, the last 18 months, I feel like we've been reshaping or, or really aligning, clarifying Hillsong network. But so things like, oh, how big do you want this to be? How, because it can be smaller, it can be big, it can be very scalable. Or you might intentionally choose that this thing actually doesn't scale like beyond, actually, the maximum size of this is seven people, you might decide or it could be 700 people, it's not necessarily right or wrong. It's how personal Do you want it to be? Do you want it to be incredibly personal? Where it's you cannot? The only way you do it is by getting together in one of those homes? Or can you be anywhere in the world? And you don't know everyone else? Who's part of it? Yeah. How leveraged? Do you want it to be? How how centralised? Do you want, like Hillsong network is relatively centralised, and the majority of the information is flowing out of Hillsong to these other churches. But then there's other networks where every Church is kind of contributing to it. So it's it's not as centralised, what kind of commitment levels required is that you can you have to show up at every single meeting and it's every other week, or is it once a year? How much commonality Do you expect there to be between the leaders? Is it great commonality where people like now this is my tribe? Or is it actually quite diverse? That you find a whole lot of different voices personalities? Is it physical? Or is it online? Is it local? Is it global? Is it for anyone? Or is it only by application? And you know, as soon as you start to identify and pick Well, yeah, I'm definitely you know, that on that one, that on that one kind of in the middle on this thing, then it shapes a really unique network that best describes you, your personality, your vision, your, your goals, history allows you to stay stay true to your grace zone. And, and that's the biggest things like don't try and be like another network, stay true to your grace on what God's put on your life and your ministry. And then they have great confidence that's going to help a lot of leaders.
David Mckeown 32:28
And that's fantastic advice, I think, and some great insights, especially around that idea of you know, if if people aren't asking it from you, really, you know, do you really want to start something? Because I think there's got to be that demand like if people are knocking on your door, that's a good indication if they're not, don't just go and write a playbook as we've said earlier. And and think this is what I'm going to do because probably people won't turn up though. They're connected and you know, it's all that sort of stuff of that personal connection isn't a really Hey, and it's been brilliant to have you on this podcast Church explained podcast. We're going to wrap up in a second. But first of all, I think we want to say thank you to to you on the forum as well. For all the stuff you guys have contributed to the wider Church over the last 20 or so years. Like To be honest, you know, we're not sort of begging you for the segment but but it is pretty remarkable. And we have benefited as a local Church our way Yeah. And and it's good for for churches, just to say thank you to you guys, for all the stuff that you've done for the wider Church. Honestly, it's just been such a blessing to have someone like yourselves out there who've helped pave the way for lots of stuff for leaders and churches. Yeah, I thank you for that. We really do appreciate it. Yeah.
Andy Hopper 33:48
It's It's a pleasure. Thanks so much for having me on. Really appreciate that. And thank you for what you do as well.
Nathan Benger 33:54
Now brilliant, and if people want to kind of get in touch with you or just SEO about how would they do that?
Andy Hopper 34:03
Yeah, I think going to probably network.hillsong.com probably the best place to check out a whole lot of free stuff there from Hillsong and different avenues to connect so network.hillsong.com
Nathan Benger 34:15
great stuff. Well that's it for this Church explained podcast as we've said, it's been great to have Andy with us and if you're wherever you're tuning into this if you could rate review, subscribe that helps us get the podcast out you'll find the show notes in the comments and the notes below. And you can check out under network.hillsong.com. But also you can check out IKON dot Church forward slash open where you'll find the show notes for this episode, but also past episodes, and also free resources on there. It's been great to be together and we look forward to seeing you next time on the Church explained podcast.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
