CEP 03: NATHAN BENGER ON - YOUTH MINISTRY THAT GROWS THE CHURCH

Apr 14

By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger

In this episode, I talk with Nathan Benger about youth ministry that grows the church and becomes a leadership factory, so you don’t run out of leaders.

Nathan shares his twelve years of experience as he has pioneered and developed a thriving youth ministry at IKON Church. This episode is packed with helpful strategies and tips that you can use immediately to help you reach the next level. Discover how you can take a young person on a journey from discovery to become a high capacity leader.

Welcome to Episode: 03 of the Church Explained Podcast. A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.

Listen and access the full show notes below or search for The Church Explained Podcast on Apple Podcast or where you get your podcasts and listen for free.

FULL TRANSCRIPT

David Mckeown 0:00

Welcome to the Church explained podcast. We really appreciate you joining us. The Church explained podcast is a conversation to develop your leadership and grow your Church. Our goal on this podcast is to share inspirational insights and ideas to resource leaders and grow teams. Through our conversation with key team players and IKON Church and other invited guests, we really hope that you will grow with us. In this episode, we're going to talk about youth ministry that grows the Church.

David Mckeown 0:34

Hi, I'm Dave Mckeown, and I'm Nathan Benger. We're the host of this podcast.

Nathan Benger 0:39

Yeah. And no guest today, Dave.

David Mckeown 0:41

No guests at all. You are the guest. Yeah. And the host at the same time. Yeah.

Nathan Benger 0:45

So I've got to do both jobs.

David Mckeown 0:47

You got to do both. Or maybe

Nathan Benger 0:48

Yeah, usually the guests would sit here. So do I have to like

David Mckeown 0:51

you can do you can swap across if you want, if that helps you just to get in the groove. Yeah,

Nathan Benger 0:56

let's build up a sweat.

David Mckeown 0:59

Let's do that. And it's so exciting to be here. You've been Nathan been involved in youth ministry for over 12 years. Yeah. And obviously a lot of experience. You've seen developing youth over this time you've seen growth, we want to sort of draw out this idea of because a lot of churches, they don't do youth ministry, they'll do youth clubs. So come on that let's try and draw that out a little bit. For those people watching. Leaders Connecting, or maybe people are thinking of doing something with their youth. What's the difference between a youth club and a youth ministry?

Nathan Benger 1:32

Yeah, so like a little bit of our story is, you know, when me and my wife Debbie got asked to take on youth ministry, we had eight young people. Over the years, we've reached like hundreds of young people. But that started from a conference that my lead Pastor went to. Lead pastor being your dad, being my dad, who went to a conference and one of the guys who got up to speak wasn't due to speak, his first phrase, I think it was, was what the UK needs is not more youth clubs, but more youth ministries. Yeah, and instantly, in that moment, it was like my, you know, my dad had this download from heaven, basically, this is what we need to do. And so we took it out of like a small group, eight young people in somebody's house, rented the school we were in, and didn't have the money to do it, but decided to step out in faith rented the school we were in, and, and there started our youth ministry. And the difference between for me between like youth club and youth ministry is youth club is, let's put on a load of activities. So let's get this. Let's get this new table out, let's get the table tennis table out. Let's get the video games out. Let's do that. And if we're running a two hour programme, that's gonna they can just hang out and do that they can buy, you know, you need to talk shop if you're going to run a successful youth event. Indeed. So let's do all of that. Let the young people hang out, and then we'll stop them having that moment. Like even if they're mid game, we'll stop you. And let's do our 10 minute God slot. Yeah. And so many times you see young people disconnect. There's so much like a just a big difference between, you know, just like, Church and that youth club.

David Mckeown 3:15

Yeah. So let me just pause there and sort of interject a little bit. Do you think you think churches, or Church leaders do that because they're frightened that young people won't engage, you know, they think that will just give them 10 minutes. And hopefully, if we can keep their interest for 10 minutes Wait, we we've run an amazing youth event.

Nathan Benger 3:35

Yeah. And some people can run great youth clubs, like they can attract a whole load of young people from the community. There's nothing wrong with running, it's nothing wrong with running youth club. Actually, we when we initially started once a month, we would run what we would call like our social event, or, you know, you might call it like your bridging event where we'd run this big event where it was like this non threatening environment to invite your friends to Yeah, but the following week, because so we made sure on that night, our invitation to the following week was strong. Yeah, because we knew the next week, like they're gonna get an environment and an atmosphere that is going to be full of God's presence. You know, we're going to have young people on fire for God passionately worshipping, and we're going to preach the message of Jesus. And so I think sometimes there is the fear factor of will young people get this, will young people turn up, will we be able to reach young people? Or will will they be turned off by it? And I think in some aspect they can be, but we have to become relevant to them. Yeah, in a way that actually it reaches into their life.

David Mckeown 4:44

Yeah, I like that the importance of being relevant. That's, that can be a struggle sometimes for Church leaders. You know, because it depends what type of Church they're running. First of all, because some churches aren't relevant not that we're against any type of Church because what said about all churches growing. But let's say for example, someone's watching and and maybe their church isn't that relevant, but they want to do something in the youth. How do they go about that? What, what's the steps they can take?

Nathan Benger 5:12

Well, I think the first step is Who's there? Like what young people have you got? Yeah. And you know, we're called to make disciples. So it starts there. Like, I've had a phrase for many years now, if I can get young people on fire for God, and if I can get young people on fire for reaching their friends, yeah, that then, you know, that's kind of like my starting point is Who's there? One of the keys for me around youth ministry Is what how you frame the night Really. And how that looks like is there going to be worship. Describe that a little bit. Yes. What is it? What does that look like for you then? Yeah, so like a two hour programme first 30 minutes is like that youth club style that's hanging out, you know, you know, music, it's good atmosphere, young people hanging out, because relationships are key for young people. Yeah. And then when, you know, like, for us, we've got a foyer and auditorium. But we didn't used to have that, where we used to meet. So it would basically be like, we're going to go in, you know, we're going to start the programme. And that might be a game upfront game where, you know, you do crazy things, you know, kind of like, I ask our youth leaders always the question, what crazy things are you willing to do for young people to have a good time? That's a real test of leadership. Yeah. And I think, you know, that's the key in youth ministry, you've got to be willing to laugh at yourself. Yeah. And that that's what can make it really relevant that actually we don't take ourselves too seriously, then it will be worship. And I know some people like as soon as I said, worship, they're going I haven't got a worship team. Yeah. Well, we didn't we didn't have a worship team when we started.

David Mckeown 6:49

So what did you do? Because you're talking like 12 years ago? He said, You need people? What did you do? Because if even a worship team, you know, no big event stuff around you. Come on just help people? Yeah, sort of plan that out a little bit in there. Well,

Nathan Benger 7:03

I want to start like that. I wouldn't do it like this today, because technology has moved on. Yeah, that's a good point. But we had an iTunes playlist. Yeah, that crossfaded the songs. Yeah, very good. But a key for me was like I saw a generation worshipping. I saw hundreds of young people worshipping that was the that was kind of like a vision from God. That's what I believe. That's what I saw. But that had to start there. And then, so I remember a conversation with Debbie the very before the very first Friday night, and basically said, Look, this is going to be awkward. Yeah, we've got no worship team. We're going to put words on a screen, where it's gonna be iTunes Playlist that's going to crossfade we set the atmosphere we set the culture. So if we want young people to worship, it starts tonight with us. So like, first song, it's an upbeat praise song. were jumping. Yeah, we're gonna go for it in the worship songs, we're gonna raise our hands, we're gonna sing out. We're gonna do all of that. And so that's where it started, like today? Like YouTube's available? Yeah, it's amazing. and you can create YouTube playlists? Yeah, you've got all that technology? Even if you know like today, you've got someone in your youth ministry or even in your Church who's willing to volunteer who can sing. Yeah, you've got the ability to use tracks. Yeah. And technology has moved on so much from that opening time when we did that there are options like I don't have a drum, it will just drop it in the tracks. Yeah, you know, there are so many options that are available. So it would be worship. We take an offering. Yeah, we some people don't. But like, hey, let's teach young people what the Bible says about it.

David Mckeown 8:42

Let's just try and draw that out. But as well, what why? Why would you take an offering, Why were you doing worship?

Nathan Benger 8:48

Well it was creating this culture of worship, in terms of this is what we do. But getting their eyes off of so like worship for me very much takes my eyes off me. Yeah. And onto God. Yeah. And it's those moments in worship that can even soften hearts. Yeah. And we were very intentional in terms of what we did in worship and the types of songs we would do. So much so that I remember once being stood next to some young people their first time in and they literally said about our band, they could go on Britain's Got Talent. Because it was like, you know, it was like, relevant. Yeah. And it was like stuff that they were listening to. I think that's a way we can be relevant is actually think about, you know, some of the style on those nights. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but it's a discipleship thing as well for our for the young people that we have, that actually gets them to take their eyes off themselves and onto God. So we do that worship, we do an offering, again, another discipleship moment. We're not expecting young people to give loads of money, but we're going to teach.

David Mckeown 9:56

So it's the principle rather than Yeah, hey, we need Your money? No, to run this youth event. Yeah, our youth night it it's more to do with the principle, isn't it that you're trying to do there? Yeah, exactly. And setting those foundations for their future as well. And I can see that working in a sense, like, because when they go from an atmosphere like that, and you invite them into Church on a Sunday, and then actually, there's a lot of the same components, there isn't there, exactly, not just, you know, okay. They may not be doing all the fun stuff beforehand, other than they probably could do in some settings. But you've got worship there. You've got an offering there. And then obviously, you've got the message there as well. Tell us a wee bit about the message you what what type of message would you bring in a night like that?

Nathan Benger 10:40

I mean, we've talked about everything. Yeah. You know, like we've taught, we've taught through tithing. But But really, you know, so like, I talked about those early days where we do these social events. Yeah, following week would be very much we'd be really intentional. We're gonna preach the gospel. Yeah. But we talk about all of the things that get taught, you know, Bible, everything, but what, what was key for us is we've got to relate it to young people and where they're at. Okay, one of the key questions I always used to ask myself and still do today, anything I do in youth is like, what would 16 year old me love? Yeah. What would 16 year? If I'm leading young people, what would 16 year old me follow? So like, I'm really passionate in front of young people, because I think passion is contagious. Yes. And I think 16 year old me, I used to follow passion, like anything. And so it was that passion. That was key in terms of leading, but that question, so like, I write a message, what would 16 year old me think about that message? What would the 16 year old? What would they think?

David Mckeown 11:50

Do you think so? So we're thinking of a youth leader or a youth team? That's a good question to ask, isn't it? You know, what, what are young people thinking about? And one of the things you mentioned earlier was this idea of relationship. Like why why do you think that's important? You know, like, I'm just imagining like, you've got young people coming in to your youth event, your youth ministry, they're turning up from school, some of them have never even been in a Church setting. Tell me a wee bit of the walk through how we're, how do they get from there where they've just come in the door? You know, they've come with a couple of mates they don't know what to expect, and then they're, at some point down the line leading something in the Church, because that's the experiences we've seen at IKON Church, we've seen that so help us a little bit with that word relationship. What does that mean? And how does that work out in the lives of a young person coming in the door? Maybe doesn't even believe in God. Maybe I'm sure you've got a story to share on something like that.

Nathan Benger 12:46

Yeah. I mean, like our framing our whole youth ministry, like asking questions, like what, you know, thinking about the young people, what's the greatest barrier for young people? Yeah, relationships whats the greatest benefit relationship. I like that. That's good. And so we based we base everything around these three relationships. Yeah. So firstly, and if you talk to any of our youth leaders just say relationship relationship relationship, and they'll know exactly what you're talking about. I'm gonna test that test it. Right. Tell me who you're gonna ask so I can prepare them, no I'm joking. Yeah. Yeah. Firstly, its relationship with friends. Yep. Like, they'll come in with a friend. You know, like, we get young people on fire for reaching their friends. So they'll come in with a friend. But initially, when they come in, we're attaching them to a small group, what we call Connect groups. We're attaching them to a Connect group. So straight away, it's not just them and their friend. Yeah, they're attached into a group already. And so there's a group of people and we talked to our young people about Hey, new people, like, like, welcome them, make them feel like they belong here. You know, like, we have a phrase, you you can belong before you believe. And so, like, get them into that environment of friendships. Because when that friend they came with, doesn't come in two weeks time, because they've got, you know, like, mum's 40th birthday or whatever, they still feel like they can come because it's not attached just to that one friendship they've built other friendships within it

Nathan Benger 14:10

They've connected with a group. Yeah. And, uh, you know, just drawn out that idea of, you know, you belong before you believe that that's an interesting thought that maybe not everybody listening to the podcast, would fully get that. Can you just share a wee bit more on that? Like, yeah, give me an example. like someone's come to IKON Church youth. You know, you've seen them maybe they don't believe at all Yeah. So like, a great example is who is our rotherham on campus Pastor now? Yeah, Nathan Blood. Shoutout to you mate. Yeah, well, he came in. He came into youth, is he, does he follow Jesus actually, yeah, just just made a decision we're checking that out. But like he came into youth, like his friend Dan. Yeah. brought him into youth. really passionate about music. Like science, like he's doing his PhD now like crazy. whilst also being a campus Pastor does a good job, guys do an amazing job. And so he come in to youth and I get a message after the youth night, which basically said, I don't believe in the God stuff. And he'd got loads of these like questions that like literally, as a 15 year old lads, 16 year old lad, he's using words that I'd never even heard of. Yeah, at times in these questions. And he said, but I love the kind of like the friendship side of it. Can I keep coming. And I'm like yeah course you can. So that's, that's the belong. Yeah. Before you believe? Yeah. Fast forward. Four weeks later, we do a night is like one of, you know, like, we framed it as one of our big nights. He was in a band with Dan, I told them they could play as long as they play no songs without any swearing or anything like that. Let me vet the songs before And anyway, that night, he gives his life to Jesus has this incredible encounter with Jesus but that's four weeks? Yeah. So four weeks from like, that opening relationship. Now he's a campus Pastor leads our creative with his wife, across all of our Church. But that started as a person who belonged before they believed and could out work, their journey and their faith. And he had loads of questions. And many times I'd just answer his question. And then have my mind be like, I'm praying that God reveals Himself to you, because I really needed God to reveal himself. Because sometimes the questions are, like, way above me. But it is that open in relationship. But actually, it speaks into the next relationship as well, which would be so you got relationship with friends, and then a relationship with a leader Get it? So he felt like he could message me, we'd obviously made some level of connection. But again, when a young person comes into our youth ministry, they're straight into a small group that's full of young people. But it's also led by at least two of our young leaders. Yeah, so straight away, they have someone they can talk to. And you know, for lots of young people, their journey and out many different things in life. And it goes by even belong before they believe what a great like, we want to create an atmosphere where they feel like I can come with those questions. Yeah, I can come and I'm not going to feel judged, I'm not going to feel condemned, I'm not going to feel like I'm in the wrong, I can do that. And part of our you know, we have a like a what we do as youth leaders. And I haven't written this down. So I'm hoping I can remember this off the top of my head, but like we encourage spiritual growth, we contact them weekly. We pray for them. We create memorable moments, comes down to the question, what crazy things are you willing to do for young people have a good time, we remember special occasions. So like a youth leader will be remembering when their birthday is when something comes up. And the last thing on our list of what we do is we connect them to Church. Now that's that's a good one that so it's not just Are we just getting them here on a Friday, we're gonna connect them to Church. And that's a key. So that would be the second relation. And then the third relationship, ultimately, is relationship with God. That's, that's what

David Mckeown 18:17

actually, for many young people, they're not going to get that naturally until they encounter the other two, are they

Nathan Benger 18:21

just that seems we we we came up with that and its seems to be a lot of young people's journey.

David Mckeown 18:29

Yeah. That that because, you know, so many times. relationship with the, you know, in the group relationship with the leader. Yeah. Then relationship with God. Yeah. I mean, that maybe you will just help people just frame that a little bit is thinking of a building a youth ministry, maybe I think of shifting from a youth club style to a youth ministry. Yeah. Do you think then someone, you know, trying to set up the youth ministry? Do they need to come up with that, like, their own vision? You know, like, all the stuff they need? Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. Do they need a separate vision than the Church?

Nathan Benger 19:03

No. And

David Mckeown 19:05

that was short and sweet. Yeah. Okay. Go on. That's just no not why not then. So

Nathan Benger 19:09

for me, youth ministry is not a silo. It's guys own thing off to the side. And I think this is where sometimes when we're talking about youth ministry that builds Church, yeah, sometimes we get this wrong because we chuck youth. So in a Church context, we chuck youth out there, that it's its own thing, and kind of do its own thing. Or as youth, we become our own thing. And what can happen is we can then you know, this can even happen we can talk badly about the Church, or we can say things like phrases like, they'll never come to Church because it's kind of like outdated or whatever it is. And, you know, part of me is like, No, no, like our like reframe the language. We've just not led young people to attach themselves to Church. And the problem is, is because we've got two seperate visions two separate ways of going, actually our job as a youth ministry. We say this phrase, youth ministry exists to build the Church. I like that Not the other way around. Yeah. Not the Church exists to build the youth ministry, youth ministry exists to build the Church. So if this is the vision of our Church, and this is it, we out work that in a youth context, so like our, you know, our mission statement says build relevant contemporary churches. Well, I just take that and go, I have to build a relevant contemporary youth ministry. Yeah. Our mission statement says reaches people with the message of Jesus well, I just reframe that, that that's young people I'm reaching. Yeah. And then, you know, our mission statement says empowering people to lead in every sphere of life. Well, I'm going to build some leaders. Yeah, we say our youth ministry is a leadership factory. Yeah. I'm going to build some leaders. The problem is, is when we separate that, then we try and connect them to the Church. There's like, two different things.

David Mckeown 20:57

Too much of a gap there. And maybe, you know, like I said, I think I think that older type model where was separate actually they young people didn't want to go to Church then the day because they think, well, it's not relevant to me. No point there. And I don't know anybody. Yeah. But I think what you've been brilliant at doing, Nathan is the fact that you've connected them both together so that that gap between what happens Friday night, if it is a Friday night, yeah, what happens on a Sunday night? It's so there's hardly any difference there. So really, same components, you've got your worship, you've got your giving, got your message. Not all but giving like to say that today, but its having those components so that young people are used to those things when they get there, I suppose then there its not alien. It's not alien, not foreign to them now. So so there's a lot of stuff there about building young people, developing leaders. Yeah. 12 years you've been doing so come on, share with people listening in this podcast. How many leaders do you think you've been managing to develop now? I'm saying you but I'm saying it's also the teams. So yeah, what I'm directing at you. So think of the leaders. Yeah, people you have developed over the years, because that's that's got to be the thing that builds the churches, developing leaders.

Nathan Benger 22:15

Yeah. I mean, like, for us, our central campus and where we started this is in Chesterfield, which is a town. Yeah, no University. So I, like I'm trying to address some of the excuses that come along. Like, we don't have a university. So when they're 18, they leave. And, you know, so like, we've talked to young people about this, cause this vision, like stick around that you get to be part of this as the Church and you know, like, go to university close by, so you can be close to it. So we've had people, Sheffield University got two universities. We started a campus in Derby, Derby University, Nottingham, universities, close all of that. But that's been attaching them to the church's vision. Yeah, not just youth ministry. And that's been key, because that's helped the development through of that there are certain young people who like literally smart enough to go to Oxford and Cambridge and you like, pray for them, bless them, you should go there. Or if you go in to do something specific to a university that like is the best university for that then go and do it.

David Mckeown 23:22

I really want to say something about the other universities, but I shouldn't really say that. Because they do good. Yeah. So So you've the the idea is get them a passion. Yeah. So that they want to stay right, get Connected, even if they go to university, they still want to be part of something because they can see the purpose, or they can see this, this is worthwhile connecting their lives to so let's think of leaders then. Yeah, I want to push it a little bit. How many leaders come on give it give me an estimate? Because it does. Because remember, you started with 8 people? Yeah. Its a journey. How many? How many leaders do you think?

Nathan Benger 23:58

Yeah, I know, they're all at different stages. But yeah, I would say it would be around 60, 65. Yeah. leaders. Yeah. But then there's other people who are spinning off our youth ministry. Yeah. Who have led in different like. I'm just thinking of people who've led in youth. But there's others who have also then led in different areas like kids ministry here, who have been part of our youth ministry and attach themselves to the vision of Church and it might not have been in youth but it's been in kids ministry. It's been in other areas Connect groups.

David Mckeown 24:31

Yeah, so so right across the board, and really not just in youth. So so what i'm not saying is how many youth leaders have, you know, how many leaders and I think that's the thing, the fact that people are serving in other areas, doing other stuff. Let's just push it in a little bit further, because we're running out of time. But we could be here all day on this. Because it's so exciting. I sense your passion, your desire to reach young people. So when it comes to a young person's come, they've been part of the environment have made a decision. Like, well, how long you're waiting before you get them involved and Church?

Nathan Benger 25:08

Well, for some young people, it's the first time they come. Yeah. Like just getting them serve. And even a story is, we had a parent come to us once and said, I'd love to get my, you know, like, young lad in Church. But he's just into computers. And they just recently made a decision. So the young lads never been in Church never made a decision. Is there any way? Like, he can get involved? And we're like, yeah, let's get him on doing the words on the screen. Yeah. And you know, like with somebody doing that, and he gets to see the software that we use, he gets to see the computers we use, he gets to do all of that. And that was his first entry point. Now, you know, few years later, he's made a decision, been a youth leader, lead in kids done all of that. But his first entry point was actually serving. Yeah, and being involved. And I think that, like, get them involved in serving. I'm a pastor's kid. And one of the keys for me of being a pastor's kid is that I've gone on the journey with my parents of building Church. Yeah. So much so that I grab a hold of that vision, and I'm part of it massively. Now, I don't want that to be exclusive to pastors, kids or leaders, kids. Now let's get some young people involved serving so they'd go along that journey. And they feel called and feel like I'm part of the church's vision and I get to do this.

David Mckeown 26:39

Yeah. So brilliant Nathan, there's so much stuff, though. We we've talked about, come on if we can just round that up, give us maybe two or three practical things. A leader, could do? Maybe they're not running a youth club, maybe maybe they're running a youth ministry but, it may be just plateauing. Yeah, or it's stuck at a certain level or because everything's online, it's gone downhill. But yeah, well, we'll get two or three things just as we wrap up then, what would really, what would be your advice? Cuz Yeah, well, I got a brilliant job with the team haven't you. So we want to, we want to draw that out of you, you know, what, two or three things would you offer people?

Nathan Benger 27:15

Well, I think we're a great moment where actually, we'll probably come out of online very soon, and we'll be able to gather again. So it's a great starting point to start something new. Yeah, to start something new, or to even set a new culture, a new atmosphere around what you're going to do. I think the first thing is, it starts with you. So what do you see, attached to the church's vision? What do you see? And then you have to model that. So like, I talked about me and Debbie, that first youth night, that didn't just happen on the first youth night it had to happen on the second and the third and the fourth, or fifth and constantly, even to today, we're still doing that. We're still setting that culture of worship. This is what we want. And I think that's where it starts. So for somebody today, that's like, key, that's important. What do you see? attached to the church's vision? What do you see? Maybe it's even I take some time to talk to my senior Pastor. And go, do you know, what, what do you see for youth ministry? What do you see attached to the church's vision? What do we see? And then begin to model begin to set culture in an atmosphere? You know, like, even just take that relationship, relation relationship and think, how do I design? Yeah, what we do around young people able to build relationship with friends relationship with a leader, but relationship with God? Yeah. How do I do that? And then thirdly, there may be youth ministries, youth pastors out there who, you know, like, you're a little bit strapped for time, resources, all of that, then we'd love to help. We would. Firstly, contact us, even if you're a senior Pastor, and you're like, Hey, we want to start a youth ministry that builds the Church, but we don't know. Like, where do we go? Then get in touch with us. Yeah, we'd love to help you. But also, we're setting up we've got IKON Open. Yeah. Which has resources on there that you can use? Yeah, youth resources, youth resources, use them in your setting, take charge, take them, use them free of charge, make them better. Yeah. And then tell us how you made them better. But, but like, utilise all that, because that was key for us start and we tried to find resources that would help us yeah, in building youth ministry.

David Mckeown 29:24

So I love that the fact that we have resources there and we want to equip people want resource churches and teams. So I think just to pick up on that if churches, all right, that they want to connect with us. We'd love for them to connect with us. We'd love to help them. Three great points. You know, you've said, you know, it's about saying it's about relationships, and it's about actually then connecting the senior pastors and seeing what they want to do as well. You know, brilliant stuff. Nathan, thanks for sharing with us today. I haven't even made you move to the other side now, but plenty of time yet, if you want to do that. So it's been so good to chat around. youth ministry versus a youth club. We're not saying youth club is bad. No, we're saying hey, we really do believe a youth ministry is a better way. And it can be a Church Church to build a Church. So thanks, Nathan for sharing. We appreciate that. Thanks, Dave.

Nathan Benger 30:13

Thanks for listening to the Church explained podcast. Remember, wherever you're consuming this content, then like it, subscribe to it, share it, get the message out there of the Church explained podcast, maybe you know someone who would benefit from hearing what was shared today, then please share that with them. Also want to mention that we have all of those free resources available at ikon.church/open resources around youth ministry but not just exclusively youth ministry, resources around building the Church growing ministries and anything you want to find. Just go on there. And also make contact with us. If you've got any questions, anything that you want us even to talk about on the podcast, then you can ask those questions. It's been great that we've been able to gather together and do this together and we're really excited for our next podcast, in which we're going to talk and explore the subject of why senior leaders need a coach and we look forward to seeing you then.

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