CEP SEASON TWO EP:08 - WITH GUEST JAYSON PRICE
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to Season 2 Episode: 08 of the Church Explained Podcast.
A conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We will talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Join us for part one of the show as we talk with Jayson Price, the campus pastor for Elevation Church in Gaston. Jayson shares the importance of developing healthy rhythms in his life as a leader and also what it is like to be a campus pastor at Elevation Church.
This was such a fun show but filled with loads of great ideas to help you grow as a leader.
Some interesting things about JAYSON are -
Jayson is married to Charmaine and has two children Grayson, seven, and Lavender, four. He is a big advocate for the subject of mental health.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
Created by AI so not perfect but good.
David Mckeown 0:01
Welcome to the church explained podcast a conversation degree your leadership and build your Church
David Mckeown 0:13
Hey, I'm Dave McKeown
Nathan Benger 0:15
and I'm Nathan Benger and we're your hosts on the church explained podcast and today we are joined by Jason Price who is campus Pastor at elevation Gaston. He's married to Charmaine has a son called Grayson, who is seven and lavender who is for Jason. It's so good to have you with us on the podcast today.
Jayson Price 0:37
Hey, guys, it's so good to be with you this, I guess afternoon where you are morning where I am. What is the main thank you guys for having me on today?
David Mckeown 0:45
Yeah, it's so good to have you with us. And we're just going to find out a little bit about you, your life, your leadership. I'm going to ask you some. We think they're pretty interesting quiz. Yeah, but let's see. Let's see how we go. Jason. So come on. Are we good? Just to find out Jason, a little bit about yourself. We always like to find out from our guests a little bit about their background, a family location role. So I wonder if you're hoping to just to kick in with that as we get started today?
Jayson Price 1:14
Absolutely. Absolutely. So as you all guys already said, I'm married to the wonderful, illustrious Charmaine price my wife of nine years. She is the yin to my Yang supporting me in every single way. And my two children, my son, Grayson, who just started as you call it football, we call soccer.
David Mckeown 1:37
We've got it right. Yeah, we've got it right. Remember that?
Jayson Price 1:43
Okay. Okay. Absolutely. Absolutely. You do have a right. You're way better than us, by the way. But he started practice. He's amazing, great student and my daughter lavender, who I told you guys before we were chatting about it, she's established. She's in this age of four years old, where she tells everyone to do for going on 24 and eats everything. Okay? So I love my family. And I've been leading for a total of 10 years of full time ministry. I did a little bit of leading in the corporate world in baking, but been in full time ministry for 10 years and loving it man campus Pastor elevation Gaston, and I get to lead a community that's very diverse, multicultural, and under our leader, Pastor Steven Furtick. Never know if you heard it that guy, but I'm honoured to serve under.
David Mckeown 2:36
Absolutely such a great
Nathan Benger 2:37
guy. Yeah, yeah. And an inspiration to so many. Just picking up the Jason, you've been in ministry for 10 years. I wonder if you just think about what have been some of the most significant learnings for you in this last season, but also over that 10 years, rarely that you could take into your next season?
Jayson Price 2:58
Yeah, I think what I when I was actually talking to to a younger leader, who's maybe been in full time ministry about three years and I said, Hey, I do not have it figured out number one. And this is why you never had it figured out. I learned that ministry mores. People think that ministry is like a baby that just kind of grows 123. But it does. It completely morphs into animals, it goes from a kitten to a elephant to a tiger, it gets aggressive, but ministry continues to morph and you have to morph with it. You can't be rigid, you can't stay at one pace, you gotta continue to learn, and begin to ask questions. And so for me, I would just continue to take that into every season, no matter what it is, I want to have I want to be a lifetime learner. I want to be a student, no matter who it is. If it's someone that's new or younger than me, I try my best to get them to give me perspective about culture. You know, I'm not I'm not young as I used to be. So I tried to give me pop culture references and what they're feeling. But I have also older friends, people that are 2030 years older than me, that continue to help me lead and navigate my family. Well, my soul well, so I think it's just that perspective. That keeps me continuing to more as ministry morphs, you know?
David Mckeown 4:21
Yeah, that's a great answer. Yeah, really good. I like that idea that ministry morphs, it's different. We've got to be agile in the season, don't we rarely, rather than just thinking it's fixed, and it's linear. And I think the thing you're bringing out there actually changes, but not in a linear sense. Yeah. And we need that sort of perspective, I guess. Because sometimes as you say, just like your daughter, ministry is a bit ravage.
Jayson Price 4:49
Well, I mean, let's not forget, we had to change with the pandemic. People want to just stop talking about it, but it's still very much so in our everyday today. rhythms of understanding how we needed to minister in a moment where everything changed. All the rules were thrown out the window, and we had to adapt a new thing. And that's going to continue to happen. That's not the last world event that we will see impact people's lives. And that's what Jesus did best. I believe he, he flow with the times, he allowed himself to be rooted in the word, but continued to be always evolving in what he was teaching and instructing people to grow in their faith. And so I think that's what we have to do. And we have to be agile.
Nathan Benger 5:34
No, I think I think that's really good. And you met you wrote in, I know, we sent the questions ahead of time, and you put some notes in there. And you wrote this phrase, which I really love. And I'd love you to expand on this Jason health for myself is more vital than health for what I lead it and you know, just thinking about what to take into this next season. I really love that that quote, but I'd love you to expand on it for our listeners, what does that mean for you?
Jayson Price 6:00
Yeah, it means I've made a lot of unhealthy decisions is what it means. I'm an initiative taker, I like to break every boundary, there is the break, except the ones of course, that have more around the character, okay. But if I can stay up a little later, to help someone I will, I was just raised in a household of people that we we let people sleep on our couches, that they needed a place to stay, if they needed food, we like to eat at our table. And so I just have this view that ministry is supposed to be not just a part of my life, but it is my life. Therefore, I can't think in a light, okay, at five o'clock, everything shuts down because someone may need me in a in a different capacity. So what I'm learning is understanding health for myself, is not selfish. It is. It is stewardship over the body and the soul in the mind, God gave me. And so I used to think, man, if I take this time for myself, if I go get a massage after preaching, or something, or if I if I spending time away from what I'm working on, then I'm not focused, or I'm not going to be successful. But I think that's incorrect thinking in mature thinking. I think as you get older, you need to pace yourself. And I want to run it the pace of grace, not at the pace of success. Now, we all have a different idea of success. But I learned from an author Mark Batterson, he said that success is his definition of it is making sure that the people closest to him, respected and loved him the most. So in order to have that I have to come home with a posture of health for my children, I have to come home with a posture of love for my wife, in the only way that Jason price does that is if I am first healthy. If I am not exhausted after giving my best energy to everyone else, if I'm healthy, and I'm able to focus on my children, and be present, I think that was the saddest time when I was sitting at the kitchen table. And I was so exhausted, I couldn't play with my daughter. I was so tired. I couldn't listen to my wife. And some guy when he convicted me and said, Hey, Jay, you have to have health. Health in mind body is spirit.
David Mckeown 8:14
Like they are really good. Practically. Jason just picking up on that. What steps did you take to add those healthy habits and what what did that look like for you?
Jayson Price 8:25
Yeah, so number one for me exercise. I know that it's probably everybody with podcasts will say some form of but I have to have a rhythm exercise for myself. Because exercise is how you energise Okay, exercise is how I am, it's not just so I can have a six pack because I still don't have one. Trying so hard. I just want a six pack guys. Okay, okay, stop eating brown rice. But exercise for me is less of that I heard a podcast one time and it really blessed me and I use it all the time. She it was a female leader that talked about how we overestimate what exercise does for the body. And we underestimate what it does for the mind. We overestimate what it does for the body. We want to think that when we get in the gym, we're gonna have biceps like The Rock, Dwayne Johnson, and we're gonna be just real. But that may not happen, okay? You may not get to that place and that's okay. But your mind will be so much more refreshed. Because it's endorphins that's released when we exercise that makes stress decrease that keeps your heart rate and is so good for you. And so for me, I have to put a rhythm. I call it my mental health. I put it in my calendar, and nobody can interrupt it. No leader, no one even my wife, she will make me go exercise. So maybe did you get to work out? You know? So she wants me to she wants me to work out because he knows how much better I am as a person. And then the second thing I think this is really least simple, but I planted this rhythm about five years ago and I'm still on it is making sure my phone shuts down when I'm home, no one should be able to get to me past a certain hour. And that has not always been the case. I hate to admit it on here, but I'm gonna be honest guys, I would, I will be accessible and available thinking I was being a good leader, but I was being a bad steward of my family. And so for me is setting a hard heart, our boundary and my phone is in another room is off. And only a couple of people like my mom, a few family can get to me, but I put it away. Because I don't want to be attached to sell your device and miss my life. I miss what God has given me. And that's just my personal decision. Everybody has a different rhythm in their life. But that's just mine. And I try to stick I try my best to stick to it. There are occasions but they're rare.
Nathan Benger 10:55
Yeah, no, I think I think that's super helpful and and simple enough that a leader could take and and begin to implement that and you're so right about exercise, not just being for the body, but being for the mind as well. I think I think that's, that's like that. That's something that we have to recognise that, you know, exercise isn't just so I get fit and like Dwayne The Rock Johnson, as you said, but actually helps our minds keep active and so important. Just thinking about being a campus Pastor Jason and Elevation Church. What does that look like? Does it differ from your you know, just thinking about other churches and other campus pastors you've been in? What does that look like for you? And how are you empowered as a campus Pastor there at Elevation Church?
Jayson Price 11:49
Yeah, we do a lot of just Church comparisons. We try to learn from everyone like that Church was Craig Groeschel to CCV in Arizona, just churches we visited just trying to support red rocks in California. You know, it's a lot of churches around that we really try to learn from and grow from, but what I find is a consistent difference in how we lead our campuses or how Pastor Steven and our CFO, chumps Corbett, how they lead us differently than others is they really demand initiative. We are not allowed to sit back and be passive. But we've been now we started very rigid, where everyone had the same script, we tried to say the same things, and we try to sync up on certain events, that still happens. But there's a lot more fluidity and empowerment. Now. We can do campus specific events. In some churches, it's like if one person if the main campus is doing an event, you're all doing it, but we're allowed to actually Pastor our community. So if I need one thing I did, you need to guys do is I did a break through Sunday. What that was for us is that we allow therapists onto our campus, and we allow people to actually have conversations with therapists to promote mental health. I'm a big advocate of mental health. One of the things that I didn't mention a far as far as me being a healthy lever leader is I've been in three years of consistent therapy. That's one of the healthiest things that I've ever done for my life into for my mental health. Because, you know, as leaders, we take on so many problems of others, and it's hard to separate it sometimes and and process it and the painful things of people leaving you and betraying you are people you thought would be with you are gone and they're not coming back, your doors are open, even the pandemic happened, and they are they vanished. So we did a mental health day, basically kind of break. Sunday, we talked we talked about testimonies that people share with the baptisms. But we also say that at the end of this experience, you can go to a professional counsellor that we've vetted out as a Church and maybe have a conversation. I am allowed to uniquely do that. No one asked me, no one told me we are allowed to take the initiative to serve our community. One campus actually did a Hispanic experience because they saw an increase in the Hispanic population. So they started a completely different experience for Espanol. Now, this is the kicker, they had no support, no resources or anything. They found them. They found them within their campus and made it happen. Now, after it's successful, then we support you, but we want you to take initiative. So that's the first thing like we're allowed to like experiment process. Now within restrictions within boundaries. We try our best to take initiative and have ownership but honour the house. So those are the three things that we move with. You just can't move in initiative with no honour. You just can't move into initiative into ownership. Now if it fails Have you got to own it? They don't make you don't need to. But hey, what happened here, we're gonna make you accountable for taking that initiative. But Pastor Steven has said multiple times, he rather you fail making a mistake. They make no mistakes and be right in the boundaries. That's not his leadership. He's gonna try things he's gonna push the envelope, you can tell from his preaching, he always a challenger, that is true and his leadership as well. And so I think that's the unique difference that we're allowed to truly like, count and say, Hey, we have this idea. Can we try it for three months, and we'll bring you back the measurables.
David Mckeown 15:38
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Jayson Price 17:36
That's perfectly put, you know, there. There's a there's a frame, it's a frame of reference. Pastor Stephen did a recent I'm gonna give you some inside edition on the camera. This is fresh off the press. Okay, he has a pretty serious this is exclusive just for your podcast, because I love you. Okay. All right. You know that our Church is known for worship music, and that has blessed us. I mean, blessed us with incredible worship songs has come from the heart of our Pastor, and now they're platinum records. Okay? Now, don't be impressed because I'm gonna give you the full context. But the platinum records means that there have been a million sales of the song, okay, a million platinum. But he gave us the understanding that don't be impressed with the platinum because it started as a post. He said, Now I want you, I'll show you the Platinum, but you got to embrace the posting up. So he showed us his wall in his office, where it's just a wall full of posts of ideas. He says, Now I walk away more excited about the postage than the plan. So you can see it even now that's that's fresh. That's fresh off the press. Nobody. That's his secret like oh, just put a post it just get a just get something on the wall. So we're in your leadership, are you trying to just make sure every detail is right. And you just need to throw posted on the wall. Now face on video posted cost a million dollars, that's not a posted. That's the platinum ideal. You need to vet that through your leadership. But a posted is something that's low effort, but high impact, low costs, but can go a long way. And you never know how God will reveal the post it note.
David Mckeown 19:27
Just it's just this idea of trying something. That idea of just having a goal, rather than when you have everything under control really is Yeah.
Nathan Benger 19:37
So I think some great thoughts. So just thinking about that, um, being a campus Pastor, what are some of the attributes the qualities, the character that a campus Pastor Elevation Church would need to carry in that environment? Yeah.
Jayson Price 19:53
It's a book that I referenced when people asked me like, What are those characteristics when you hire are when you Looking for talent or when you really want to bring someone on your team? Well, I feel like they fall in this book called The ideal team player, by Patrick Lencioni, one of my favourite favourite authors or writers and leadership consultants. He's brilliant. He has many books. But I think as I look back because there's no formula, everyone on our campus, Pastor team is different. They look different. They have different genius, and I love that about our Church yet. I think the characteristics that are similar are what Patrick Lencioni was say, humble, hungry, and emotionally intelligent, home hungry, humble, and smart. And so for me, hunger is that passion. You cannot teach passion. Listen, I have hired and let go of individuals that I have placed on my team that just they got no motorman. You got to wake them up. And you got to put them to sleep this yes, this Yes, I can't do it. I'm self motivated. As you can tell, like you don't have to give me ideas. I will come with 10. And you need to choose to because I'm ready. And I need that kind of energy on my team. But I see that in our campus, Pastor team, we're hungry. We don't need much instruction, we just need a little bit of direction, some parameters. And we don't right. And so that hunger is something you cannot teach. I feel like if it's either in you or it is not. The next thing is the humility. And humility is so important. And it's not thinking less of yourself. That's insecurity. Most people would they think quiet people are humble. No, they're not. Sometimes they're the most prideful people because they put their insecurities above the team. They won't give their ideas, they won't give their thoughts. They're quiet. I don't allow that. And my staff table. I'm like, hey, everybody speaks. We're going to ask some questions. Everybody has to contribute. But humility is not thinking less of yourself. It's thinking of yourself less. Now, if you put your self above the team, that's not humility. And so sometimes even me as the leader, the campus Pastor, I will allow other people's ideas to lead the way. I'm not the smartest person at the table. I don't come in with that posture. Like once again, we come in as students, what can we learn today? And so is that hunger is that humility? And then let's not forget about emotional intelligence. You need people that can understand your people. You cannot overlook that. I call it I don't know if you guys watch the show in the UK, but it's this show in the states that got popular call the office, and it wasn't Michael Scott. We do not really get Michael Scott. It just kind of don't get it you know what I'm talking about. It's like the t know that he is like, like, emotional intelligence man that you can't have Michael Scott leadership. You got to be aware of your energy. Even me being a very talkative, passionate individual. I have to know when to be quiet and let others really lead the way I have to know when to allow my passion to be put in his place in a fireplace. So he can actually produce heat and produce warmth. That's my awareness. That's not you guys. This job. That's mine. So humble, hungry? motional. Intelligence.
David Mckeown 23:20
He, I think we need those in our lives. Yeah, definitely. People listening. There are three good things to pay attention to. Jason, let's pick up a little bit on the sort of rhythms of your life, work life. home life. I know you touched on one or two of those earlier, but we'd love love just to hear about more. What are those rhythms look like for you?
Jayson Price 23:38
Yeah, I mean, so I don't know if you guys are musicians, but I actually started off playing drums when I was four. Okay. Yeah, drummer. Okay, there we go.
Nathan Benger 23:49
Well, let's, let's just say, you move things. I could play a beat.
Jayson Price 23:58
Yeah, so I was a drummer. And the key thing about drummers there's a there's a sequence to making the rhythm. Okay, there's a sequence that if one piece is off, it really doesn't stay in the flow, or what we like to call the musicianship, the pocket. So there's a things in my pocket in the pocket, standing rhythm and seat that keep me alive, so I can lead in the right way. I named a few but I'll go through the list one more time. First things first, is I tried to go on a date night with my wife twice a month, twice a month. It's like a non negotiable for us to just really truly align as a husband and wife and just continue to love each other. I think in nine years we've grown in love because we've prioritised just time. You know, me and my wife, we cut up we go to comedy shows, we go to concerts. We have the best time and I think it's very important to mention in this season, we've seen a lot of public preachers and leaders following because wasn't infidelity. And so I don't even want to pretend like I'm not a man that has desires, temptations and try to be above my own flesh. No, I have to stay in love with my wife attracted to my wife, and in sync with my wife. It's just, it's just gonna produce a healthier Jason, and a healthier rhythm for how Lee people that are married on my team, people that are married on my campus. And so I have to exemplify that and love it. It's not a responsibility, man, it's opportunity. I love my wife, Charmaine, and I'm honoured to say that with a smile on my face, and it's not lip service, you know, where it's like healthy, and not just for Tim. And so for me, dating hurts. It's like, something I love to do. And the next thing for me is I did talk about mental health, but I want to, I want to highlight that second, I think we have put a bad stigma on being mentally healthy as a leader. And we need to process pain. We need to process emotion at the right level. One thing me and the campus pastors do yesterday, just a few of us. We just went through a survey of how healthy we are, like how how much do we practice silence and solitude, devotion to God for ourselves? Do we put being successful above being spiritual and rooted in faith? Because that can happen as a leader, as a campus Pastor, you can want your campus to grow and your team to be the best and you can forget about yourself. But the Bible says it like this. What does it profit a man to gain a whole world? I'm gonna say just for this podcast, the whole Church world didn't lose your soul. And that soul is the mind will any motions, so you can lose your soul while you're still alive? I think people cherish like that versus say, when I'm dead. Oh, no, no, no, no, you're marvelling emotions can be out of whack, because you haven't steward them. And that's our responsibility as a leader. So I make all my friends go to therapy, if they don't have a therapist, by the time our friendship fully matures. I hope people accountable. I like you got it yet. When is your first appointment? We set reminders, because I understand my dad growing up guys, I just unpacked this about last week. He really he was in full time ministry, a Pastor, a Pastor, multiple churches was an evangelist, but my dad suffered from bipolar. And he was never diagnosed. So imagine me young Jason, four years old, five years old, six years old, 15 years old, trying to understand the rhythms of my dad emotional state, without a diagnosis. Is he going to be happy today? Is he depressed today, he will lock himself away in rooms for days, and I wouldn't understand. And now under, no one taught me this, I have to dig this up and say, Oh, my dad was probably bipolar. Now, there's so many reasons in his past, but having done understanding that we are humans, and that we need to take care of steward our mind. And so that leads me to exercise. I think men have spiritual pray. I know Bible reading, I won't bore you with that, that is so important. It is so vital. But in Church, we don't take care of our bodies. I have so many obese people that I lead and I love and I'm like, Hey, that blood pressure, I can pray over it. Or we can get a diet plan, like, whoo, I mean, we can believe God.
Jayson Price 28:34
And we can go on keto, like we can do both, we can be interchangeable. And I think it's so important that our staff and our people we leave understand this to be healthy leaders. Right now at the Elevation Church staff. We're doing a fitness challenge right now. So our whole entire staff is synced up Pastor Steven is just in his heart to be healthy. And to run the race long. As you can see, he is a extremely fit specimen. I mean, my goodness, but it's not for show he wants to last long. And I honoured him for that. And he's given us that example as leaders. So we we're not just fit for vanity, we want to let we want to be energetic. He's now in his 40s. I'm in my I'm 35 head into my 40s I want to be better than than I am now. This is a rhythm I've established right now. It's a 5am rhythm. So pray for me, because that's a new rhythm that are in place. But I find out when I workout at 5am I have more energy throughout the day. So when I'm walking into this podcast this morning, you can tell it seems like I've got seven Red Bull and three cups of coffee. But it's just because my rhythm I haven't learned as a leader. I'm energised when I get my workout in, get my personal time with God. And then I start my day. Leaders have to learn to create margin at the beginning of the day if possible. I know every buddy got small kids in different seasons. So I understand that. But yeah, I think that for me, it's just three rhythms that I just want to say, hey, take care of yourself.
Nathan Benger 30:11
Amazing. Amazing, so good. Well, it's been a pleasure to have you on the show. And it's been great to be together on the church explained podcast, and want to just encourage our listeners, wherever you're listening from, however, you're consuming the content and subscribe, share it, save it. Yeah, and maybe there's someone in your world maybe there's a leader in your world that needs to hear this conversation. I want to encourage you to share that with them. Don't forget we have the resources available at IKON dot Church forward slash open pre free resources for you. churches out there and leaders out there but we look forward to having you with us next time on the church explained podcast. We'll see you real soon.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
