CEP SEASON THREE EP: 01 - WITH GUEST DAN BLYTHE
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
The Church Explained podcast is a conversation to help grow your leadership, develop your team and build your church. Your hosts will be Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger. We talk about all things leadership with key team players from IKON Church and other guests during each show.
Welcome to Season 3, Episode: 01 of the Church Explained Podcast with guest Dan Blythe
A short bio about Dan
Dan Blythe, It was while back-packing in Australia, aged 18, that Dan encountered Jesus and went on to study for two years at C3 Bible College, specialising in Youth Ministry. When he headed back to the UK, aged 21, he started in a role as a Youth Pastor in Canterbury, Kent. There he led an interdenominational youth ministry called ‘Change’. He met his wife, Charlie, at a festival called Soul Survivor and after marrying, they became active members of Hillsong Church in London. Over the next decade, Dan worked as part of the staff team at Hillsong and led the youth and young adults and, later, the Creative Team. Dan is now the Global Youth Director for Alpha, which he describes as his dream job! Dan and Charlie have two boys, Knox, age four and Niko age one.. Dan supports Chelsea FC, Spends his free time at his boxing gym and decides that 2022 is the year he will finally learn to cook.
In this episode, we explore with Dan how we should engage Gen Z.
We hope you enjoy it.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
CREATED BY AI - SO NOT 100% accurate.
David Mckeown 0:00
Hi everyone welcome to the church explained podcast a conversation to grow your leadership and build your Church today we are on season three of the podcast Season Three yeah hard to believe isn't it we are seasons and here we are season three who knew it and it's 2023 2023 so we're excited to be here today amazing guests lined up you want to tell us some more about this amazing guest yeah you know I'm I don't really know Him know well, we're gonna find out about him today little
Nathan Benger 0:29
while we got done blinds with us who is potty view file for and we'll explain that a little bit. We, me and don know each other through youth ministry and youth Pastor in together but here's a little bit more about done that he wrote about himself. So let's see if it's any good. It's well written. Yes, it is, is well written. Yeah. But done. It was while backpacking in Australia, aged 18 That done encountered Jesus and went on to study for two years at sea three Bible college, specialising in youth ministry. When he headed back to the UK at 21. He started in a role as a youth Pastor in Canterbury Kent. There, he led an interdenominational youth ministry called change, he met his wife Charlie at a festival called Soul Survivor and after marrying, they became active members of Hillsong Church in London. Over the next decade, Dan worked as part of the staff team at Hillsong and lead the youth and young adults and later the creative team. Dan is now the global youth director for alpha, which he describes as his dream job. Dan and Charlie have two boys Knox age four. And Nico, age one. Dan supports Chelsea and we won't hold that against him. And he spends his free time at his boxing gym and decided that 2022 was the year he would finally learn to cook. Dan, it's so good to have you on the podcast, mate.
Dan Blythe 1:52
Thanks so much, guys. It's an honour to be here.
David Mckeown 1:55
Hey, welcome. We're so excited. So a couple of things I want to pick up on not even questions, but I just want to dive into that. It says his boxing gym. Is it your boxing gym? Or just a gym? You go to?
Dan Blythe 2:07
Yeah, it's just a gym, I go to unfortunately, I would like to.
David Mckeown 2:12
Alright, because the way it was written, I thought you owned it, therefore, because you seem to own everything else around the world. So. But anyway, so good to have here. And we're excited today. Yeah. So I wonder, could we just dive in and get a few questions to you today, then why would that be? Absolutely. Yeah, let's go. So let's think about your role with alpha at the minute. What what does that look like? Because that sounds like, as you said, a dream job? Why is it your dream job? Tell us a wee bit more about that.
Dan Blythe 2:43
Yeah, I mean, ever since I was 18, and I became a Christian, I've always just had a heart to help young people just have a space to encounter God's grace. And I've been in youth ministry all the way through my life apart from the last couple of years when I was working for Hillsong when I became creative director, and it was in that role was like learning to lead creatives. And I sort of slight sort of saying, God, why am I doing this? Like, why this role, but it's funny, because I wouldn't have got this job that I'm doing now, if I hadn't have done that role of being creative director, because a lot of what we do with alpha is content creation. And it's funny how, even when you're in seasons of life, where you're like, God, what are you doing here, he's always doing something, he's always preparing for something that he might have in the future. And so this role that I'm in now, it's it's helping young people have conversations about faith, life, meaning and purpose. There's a lot of culture and content creation involved in it. And really, I get to listen to youth leaders and young people around the globe to make sure that we can help serve them and equipment.
David Mckeown 3:38
I love that. Thinking of that stuff that you're doing with Alfred and I, what's your big focus at the minute we will we want a little bit of not not the sort of general stuff you tell everyone, everyone we want to sort of behind the scenes stuff, you know, onto the radar. What's your big focus at the minute?
Dan Blythe 3:54
Yes, at the moment, I'm working on creating the new alpha youth film series, the last one came out in 2017. It's been done by 3 million young people around the globe, but COVID just put a big expiry date on it. And even though the theology is still true, the packaging and some of the methodology needs to be changed. So we're working on that right now. And we're going to do English speaking version, Latin American version, Asia version, African version, German, French, Arabic, Indian so we're just doing a lot of contextualization young hosts in localised countries just so it's not like creating the West for the rest It's like you know, local for them.
David Mckeown 4:32
I like that I credit in the West for the rest I haven't had up before I like that automate state a lot. Actually. That's a good little phrase there. And there's a little while back we had your boss on this show, actually, Shayla Visser. She said your boss.
Dan Blythe 4:46
Yes. She said my boss and she's a great boss. I'm so grateful for her.
David Mckeown 4:50
Yeah, yeah. Well give her a shout out on the podcast. She did a great job with us back in 2021, I guess was it
Nathan Benger 4:56
it was yes. One it was season one. People couldn't go back and listen to that. So we want to explore this idea of engaging this generation generation, Zed or Z, however you pronounce that. We want to explore that today, because I think there are some studies out there. And it's a big generation that's available to us as Church. So Dan, I wonder if you just dive in a little bit on describing who is Gen Z? And also, what are some of the interesting learnings from studies or experiences you found with that generation?
Dan Blythe 5:34
Yeah, so Gen Z are born between 1995 and 2009. And so that means that ages between 10 and 24, so you've got teenagers in there and sort of young adults, the next generation coming after that is called Generation alpha, we didn't name them that some other person did in Australia. And that's the generation that's under 10, which is also really exciting generation to be thinking about, but Gen Z are the teenagers of today, and their generation has been labelled by the world, as snowflakes, they're entitled, they don't show up, they don't do what they say they're going to do. They ghost you, which is when they text you while you text them, and you call them but they don't text or call you back. And a lot of the stereotypes and labels around this generation that the world puts on them are very negative. And I just love to spend some time always thinking about what does God say about this generation. And when I think about snowflakes, you know, especially here in London, when they move together, they shut down streets, shops, and schools, because there's power and togetherness. And that's what I'm seeing about this generation Gen Z, because of the digital revolution, they're coming together, and they're bringing around change, not just micro change, but macro change. But when you think about 1000s and 1000s of snowflakes moving together, you get what's called an avalanche, and an avalanche totally reshaped the landscape. And when I think about, you know, the last couple of years, and the changes that Gen Z have brought around, that's what we're seeing, it's almost like this cultural avalanche, you know, within that you'd call in a big, cancelled culture and all the rest of it. And I really believe that as the Church as Christians, it's our job to sort of go in the middle of the avalanche and find out like what needs to be rescued, because even Gen Z themselves are getting sort of like caught up in their own avalanche that they caused themselves. And I think God is using this avalanche. You know, Romans eight verses 28 says, God turns all things around for good for those that love the Lord. And I don't think he's afraid of it or worried about it, I think he's going to use it for His glory. But I do think as Christians, it's our job to go in and help rescue these young people that have been hugely, I guess, knocked sideways by what's happening culturally, and then also make sure that the Church is being rescued. Because you know, one of the things that is getting battled through this avalanche is definitely the Church. But like I said, I don't think God's fearful of it.
Nathan Benger 7:47
I wonder if you could tap in a little bit. I know, you partnered with Barna on a study that you guys did there at alpha, around this generation, I wonder if there were some things that really stood out to you through that study, that you could just, you know, give to our listeners today.
Dan Blythe 8:06
Yeah. And for those that haven't heard about this study, we listened to 25,000 Teenagers across 20 countries around the world. And the survey, the study was called the Open generation. Because when we got all the results back, what we realise is that this generation is really open and inclusive, they want to listen, and they want to learn. And so I mean, there was lots of different things that I've talked about for hours that sort of came up. But one of the interesting facts was how they see Jesus and how they see Christians, how they see the Church, they see Jesus as loving, kind and accepting. And they see Christians as judgmental, strict and exclusive. So there's a real gap between how teenagers see Jesus and how teenagers see Christians. And so, you know, one of the things that I always put out there when we're looking at this study with other Church leaders and youth leaders is that how do we bridge that gap?
David Mckeown 9:01
Yeah, that's some great stuff. What do you think are the other barriers then for this generation that we're talking about today? What are the barriers that are out there regarding faith?
Dan Blythe 9:11
So about evangelism as one of the things which alpha really leans into? And so we asked young people, so what does evangelism look like for you? And one of the things that they seem to be really pulling away from is this like, you know, in the middle of the street, given out and leave the light turn or burn, like, lack of relationships. So they like to do evangelism, through relationship, because if there's no trust, they don't care what you have to say. And it's the old saying, I remember when I was 21, at Bible college, and they said, when it comes to youth ministry, young people don't care what you know, until they know that you care. And it's a bit of a throwaway, but it's still so true. Like, especially for this generation, like trust and relationship is key. The other things that they they're looking for is a non judgmental, free listening space, so that they can invite their non Christian friends into a space and they're not going to be judged for their lifestyle or judged for their opinions. And then they're also happy with healthy disagreement. So on social media, you'll see a lot of shots fired a lot of disagreement, a lot of hate there. But algorithms are really triggered towards that stuff. And they'll push that stuff more. When you actually get a space of young people together. It's very different to what you see on social media, that actually okay with healthy disagreement, listening to each other's point of view, we've heard stories of like young Muslims and young Christians just sitting down having long conversations about the difference in faith, and still having a great relationship throughout that. And then I think, finally, one of the things when it comes to evangelism, they want to see word with that with action. So you can't say loving the poor if the Church isn't doing anything for the poor. And so they actually want to see the whole the whole Christian faith demonstrated visibly in that community locally. So preaching is one thing, but they want to see a lot of action accompany to the preaching.
Nathan Benger 11:02
Yeah. I wonder if there's anything. So we're talking about some barriers here, and barriers to faith. And you're mentioning some of the things that they're open to, I wonder if there's any stories that you have through, you know, like, chatting with youth pastors, I know, you go all over the all over the world, and you're chatting with youth pastors all over the world. I wonder if there's any stories of where people have done that? Well, in terms of opening a space for that conversation, and I know it youth alpha, you've got your, I don't know, inflatable sofa thing that you pop up? I wonder if there's any great stories that you could just share?
Dan Blythe 11:41
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's really important when we start to look at patterns and trends from these global studies, every teenager is unique, and every teenager is different. And even though we do these studies, what might work in a local Church with your local youth group might not work and might not work with the survey. So what I'm trying to say is, the best stories that I've heard is when a youth leader hasn't just listened to what everyone else is saying about youth ministry, they've listened to their young people. And I've asked them, you know, like, what is it that you're passionate about? What is it that you care about? What would create space for you to invite your friends, and then they've action to that. And so what works in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, definitely won't work in London. And what works in London probably won't work in, you know, in Argentina. And so I think the best stories I've heard is literally just when youth leaders have thought about what is the safe space look like for their local young people. And then they really been able to let go of the strategies and the things that have worked last year, and then created something new for this year. So really, like holding everything that we've done in the past really lightly in our hands, which is really hard to do. Because you know, if something worked last year, you think, why won't it work next year. But I think if we really cared about these young people, then what we're doing is we're listening to the young people that we have today, rather than young people that were maybe looking after three years ago, and allowing the youth ministry to really evolve and change as the as the young people evolve and change in culture and society.
David Mckeown 13:11
You've mentioned a couple of things that are that I think would be good for us just to pick up on, which is around this, creating a safe space and building trust with young people. As we think of our listeners today, maybe lots of leaders out there youth pastors, Church leaders, you know, after they can do those two things, which seem to be big things really, aren't they? What else can they do to really begin to engage with this generation?
Dan Blythe 13:36
Yeah. Such such a good question. So I think we've got to look at like, what is what is the metrics? Or what are the KPIs key performance indicators here? Normally, in youth ministry and Sunday services, a lot of the metrics are how many people attended our Sunday service. And if you look at the way Sunday is set up is rows, and we come in with a notepad and we listen to the preacher and we take the three points, and then we go home. And that's, that's great, because we're teaching the Bible, but young people have 10 questions for every one point and the preacher is preached. And so this small group environment, the connect groups, I would say, I'd encourage, like, what emphasis? What resource? What time and energy are you pouring into those small groups? Because that's really where a lot of discipleship and fruit happens. And then I'd also say, how are we raising up youth leaders, and we're trusting them that they're just going to be faithful stewards are the young people that they've got to disciple. So, you know, they might not have, you know, 50 young people on a Friday night, fill in the auditorium. But that youth leader might have gone to like a football game to listen to them and to support them. They might call them up midweek to pray for them for the exam, might take them for Nando's when they failed the exam. And so a lot of those metrics, they're not as easy as easy to record and to share. But I think if we just raise out youth leaders that we really just trust to get on With the work and just, you know, be praying for them. And I think finally I just say I don't see youth ministry as this as a separate thing like this is the Church and the youth ministry is over there trying to do everything you can to bring the youth ministry in. So it's all one. And I think that's one thing that I've seen, you know, Nathan do over the years at your Church is that that youth ministry isn't a side part of the Church. It is the Church and a lot of the elder people that you have in your own community, I just see them welcoming and loving that generation almost being sacrificial with style so that this next generation can access God's presence. And I think you guys do such a great job at that.
Nathan Benger 15:36
Thanks me. No, I think one of the things that you just said there that I think is really important for people to recognise, and you might be a Church leader listening to this, or a youth Pastor, but maybe thinking about this leadership is, you know, like you say, the metrics, you know, like, they turn up at youth on a youth night, and whatever that looks like, it's easy to do that, but it's hardest to, you know, the metric of you know, they went to their football game, they rang them up to pray with them before the exam. They took them to Nanos, because where else would you take them? The best chicken ever. And we're not sponsored by Nando's but Nando's. If you are listening to this, we are welcome to be sponsored. But I think sometimes when success and we determine success, sometimes in the Church world by those metrics, you know, who turns up on a Friday, I think sometimes when success does happen, we forget all of the other stuff that went before the phone calls the Nando's all of that kind of stuff, before and I just want to encourage someone today to say, Hey, don't stop doing that stuff. Because maybe you've seen some level of growth, it was actually that stuff that built those relationships and the trust, that then they enabled the conversations and enabled them to go, you know what I can bring my friends to this. And I think I think that's just such a great point there done for people to take away.
David Mckeown 16:58
And I think that's where that's where a lot of the work is done is in those conversations and police stuff before you get there Friday night or a Sunday. And one of the things we've been talking about even here at IKON Church is around how we measure those metrics, rather than just thinking of a Sunday or groups. We're trying to think a little bit outside of that. So rather than think of connect groups, we're thinking of midweek connections, and it gets us all all those types of connections. And then for young people, if someone takes them I'd like, keep those in mind because they're doing something, aren't they? Yeah, the life of young person on in the life of the Church. Yes.
Nathan Benger 17:33
I wonder, Dan, if you could touch on a little bit, obviously, you mentioned earlier about how how they view the Church. And, you know, maybe you talked about those connect groups and the Church, you know, thinking about leadership, but what about for us in terms of our services? In terms of the things we do right now? How does the Church begin to engage with that generation in the things that we do? Currently?
Dan Blythe 18:04
Yeah. Again, it's such a great question. So one of the things that we are telling people about is, what are you really passionate about, and one thing kept coming up is that they do want to make the world a better place. And this came from Christian young people, or non Christian young people. And then we ask them, you know, what is number one, when it comes to making the world a better place, and in around the world, they will have different things as number one. So in America, it was anti racism. In Brazil, it was poverty. In the UK, parts of Europe, it was global climate change, and Indonesia and Malaysia, it was political corruption. But what we want to see is like what was bubbling to the top when young people care about making the world a better place. And so one of the things I would say is, if you're a Pastor, I'd be sitting down with your young people finding about what in justices they see in the world and work out whether we're actually preaching and demonstrating a way to actually make the world a better place. So if young people are hearing us preach, but not preach, not talk about the things that they really want to see changed in society. Ultimately, that's the only glimpse they're getting of Church. They think that Church doesn't care. Now, we might know that as as individuals, we care about a lot of things, but they're really leaning in, especially on the Sunday service to see what do you care about the most? And so I'd be just looking at, you know, what are you teaching? What are you saying, and the young people know that you are passionate about the things that they're passionate about? And then what space are you creating, to help equip them and empower them to make the world a better place? Because if they don't think there's a space for that in the Church, then they'll just go elsewhere to do that. But ultimately, we know you know, Jesus and justice go hand in hand. And so you know, it's a great question to ask is, are we creating space for Jesus and justice and this next generation to move forward and making the world a better place?
David Mckeown 19:56
Yeah, that's fantastic. Some some great stuff that and it gets to come comes down to this idea of listening to young people, as you've said there quite a number of times down. Because I think the thing that comes to my mind is the fact that like, even within a culture, like you talk about the UK or Europe, but you've got subcultures within those, don't you? So we need to be listening leaders need to be listening well, and actually applying that in their setting. So, hey, we've got we've got a question again, about Alpha zero, right? Because we know that your dream job so we want to dig in a little bit further, I wonder if you could tell us, what do you think the future of youth Alpha looks like? We know you've talked about the new Alpha series coming out? What else like what's in your heart? What's your dream that you want to make happen through youth Alpha?
Dan Blythe 20:42
Yeah, well, it'd be question I think there's a billion teenagers on the planet. And so I'd love to create, I guess, with our team, some some content, which is going to have lead to a conversation for as many of those teenagers around the world to have a conversation about faith life, meaning and purpose. And so that means, you know, a lot more releasing of what we're doing, raising up leaders across the globe. Everything we do is for the Church. So what we're not is alpha youth is not a movement, trying to attach our teenagers to ourself. Everything we do, whether it's cultural, or content that we create, is there for the Church to run. So it's about helping youth groups and their youth ministry become healthier, more whole, and hopefully see more people encounter Jesus. So I'd really love to help the Church, I guess, over the next 510 years, just be really known for their love. And I think really, for this generation, if we're going to be known for our love is going to be through listening. And so I'd really love to help the Church be seen as not as you come to us and listen to us, but actually know we're reversing that and we're listening to you. And in that way through relationship, hopefully, you're going to encounter some amazing grace and love that you've never really heard about before.
Nathan Benger 21:56
That's amazing. And, well, we want to go on record and saying big thanks to alpha. Yeah. You know, we we we run alpha here and we're looking forward to the new youth Alpha series as well. And getting that plugged in. And yeah, just a big thanks to alpha for all they've done. So right we you done, we just want to get to know you a little bit more to finish off this episode. We just got three feet Quick Fire, if I can get the words out quick fire questions for you. Now, one of the things that I do with Dan's Instagram, okay, one, it's, it's really cool. And that's a 36 year old say you jealous. I am slightly jealous, jealous. Dunn's Instagram, he's he's a creative, okay. But the one of the things that I do love and is the only stories from time to time, he will post what books he's reading, okay, and then I screenshot them. And then I'll add which ones I like, catch my eye to my list. So Dan, what are your top two book recommendations? And why? Oh,
Dan Blythe 23:02
that's such a great question. Well, if you're thinking about creativity, and you want to kind of like move more in the creative stream, I'd say creativity Inc, by Ed Catmull. He is the guy who was the CEO of Pixar. And so he just took things to a new level, but in a really healthy cultural way. So I'd recommend that. And in terms of Christian books, I just got a brand new one on liturgy. And liturgy is something that I never, never really thought about never really liked. I thought it was quite forceful in Church services when you make someone say something, but yeah, again, I'm learning so much about different cultures, different denominations, and the just the amount of gold in the truth in liturgy. So all I know is about liturgy, but I can't remember the actual title of it, but that's the one that I recommend.
David Mckeown 23:51
Well, you can turn that on tears and we can stick that in the humanoid. Hey, you've mentioned rally a little bit in your bio abide. What do you do for fitness? Well, tell us a little bit more. How do you stay healthy? What do you do? That we haven't already told us?
Dan Blythe 24:07
Yeah, I exercise six days a week from seven to 745 of my boxing gym. And I just for me, that's like, I've got no phones got nothing and I'm just, you know, smashing those punch bags. And so for me, that's, I think it's very therapeutic. You know, there's no kids around me and stuff. And then as much as I can, I just eat as healthy as I can. And I get to sleep as early as I can.
Nathan Benger 24:30
Awesome. I stayed at Dan's house once and he was he was out. going, I don't know if we went to the gym or for a run around 7am Nice. I stayed in bed. Yeah. So amazing. So you mentioned in your bio that this year has been the year you finally learned to cook so what's the best meal you've cooked?
Dan Blythe 24:55
Oh, that's, that's a tricky one because my wife is the one who really like is the is the taste tester but I'd say her favourite one is this salmon with coriander, honey crust, pistachios, crushed garlic potatoes and tenderstem Broccoli.
David Mckeown 25:13
It's baked in the oven. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds sounds good. That sounds good. Well, we're getting hungry. It's almost lunchtime here, right here in the UK. And we are getting hungry. But listen, it has been amazing. Time to have you with us. We're shutting you guys on with the youth office stuff. And of course, all our alpha global. It's such a privilege to have you here with us and just to share those insights around Gen Z Gen. Or Gen Z, depending on what part of the world you're in. But for us today, that is a wrap. Do you want to tell people what else you can find me?
Nathan Benger 25:43
Yeah, well done. Why don't you just share where people can? You know, your social media? Maybe you fall for how they get that stuff?
Dan Blythe 25:53
Yeah, absolutely. And I just want to say, Guys, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. I love IKON Church. And every time I've been there, I've just walked away with like, such a, I guess a bit of a wow moment of the community that you have there. I think a lot of stuff can be manufactured. But I think experiencing your community like you walk away and just like just grateful for that authenticity that you guys have there. So thanks for having me. But yeah, in terms of like alpha youth, the website is just youth.alpha.org And then if you're on Instagram or tick tock is just at alpha YT H and you'll find all of us are stuff there and more information about
Nathan Benger 26:31
Awesome. Well Dan, thanks so much for being on the podcast and thanks to everyone who's listened to this please rate review share subs scribe however you consume this content and don't forget we got loads of resources free resources at IKON dot Church forward slash open and it's been great to be together exploring this topic. We're engaged in Gen Z, and we look forward to seeing you next time on the church explained podcast
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
