CEP SEASON THREE EP: 12 - WITH GUESTS STEVE & RACHEL MAWSTON
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
A SHORT BIO ABOUT STEVE & RACHEL
Steve and Rachel Mawston are passionate about the Church and have devoted their whole lives to following the call of God, building His house and the lives of others.
Currently, they are based in Soul Church in Norwich, England, with their life-long friends and Senior Pastors, Jon and Chantel Norman. They are part of the senior leadership team and have seen this dynamic Church grow numerically and in influence.
In our conversation, we explore how to withstand the challenges that we often face as leaders. Steve and Rachel share insights and ideas to help us stay resilient in ministry.
We hope you enjoy it.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
CREATED BY AI - SO NOT 100% accurate.
David Mckeown 0:03
Hey, welcome to the church explained podcast, a conversation to bring your leadership and build your Church. We're excited today we got something a bit different today.
Nathan Benger 0:11
Yes, we are at our staff retreat as IKON Church and we've had two of our great friends Steve and Rachel Morstan with us. And and so we thought, well, whilst we're here, let's do a church explained podcast, a little bit about what we've been speaking about stuff retreat, but then also a little bit of exciting stuff that Rachel has got coming up. So you need to stay tuned in for that. If you don't know Steve and Rachel are, firstly, they're the greatest people on the planet. We've just told them that and, but also they're passionate about the Church devote their whole lives to following the call of God building his house and the lives of others. Currently, they're based at Seoul Church in Norwich, England with their lifelong friends and senior pastors John and Chantal Norman. They're part of the senior leadership team there. And I've seen that Church grow numerically and in influence. So Steven, Rachel, it's great to have you on the church explained podcast.
David Mckeown 1:12
Thank you. It's great to be here. Welcome. Welcome. And of course, not only do they do the stuff at Seoul Church, but further afield as well do a lot of travelling, coaching leadership stuff as well. So that's great to find out about as we go through. So we're excited to have here because as we've said, it's a little bit different with the church explained podcast a day one, it's a staff retreat. So this is almost like a behind the scenes staff talk. But like, with an extra layer in there, okay, so you're really anybody who's watching into they're listening in, you're really behind the scenes of IKON Church, you're finding out some of the stuff we've been going through your talk and through even the last couple of days. So great to have you guys here. Thank you. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourselves more than what we've put in the bio, maybe about your ministry, your role, your life? And maybe a little bit of what you do for fun as well? Yeah,
Steve Mawston 2:08
well, firstly, we're obviously married very much.
David Mckeown 2:13
To you. Congratulations.
Unknown Speaker 2:15
We met when I was 12. And he was 13.
Steve Mawston 2:19
Yeah, I then chased her for 10 years, and finally landed the fish. Very well. So yeah, so we've been married for nearly 30 years got two beautiful girls melody who's 23 and Mercy who is 18 just to do it. We love them to
Rachel Mawston 2:37
faith love Church, they both love ministry. Melody actually oversees the worship at soul Church. And we lived in Australia for 15 years when pastoring over there, just move back to our roots four years ago, four and a half years ago.
Steve Mawston 2:49
And what do we do for fun? Well, I love to play golf. I love any sport really much fun. And I love cooking and the fact bodyboarding which was great in Australia, but in Chroma in the North Sea. It is a very seasonal
Nathan Benger 3:03
affair. Can you call this the North Sea?
Steve Mawston 3:06
Well, it gets to around five degrees. Do you need a full wetsuit?
Nathan Benger 3:11
I want to know this because I was baptised in the North Sea. And all I could remember it was free.
Steve Mawston 3:20
You get a total
Nathan Benger 3:22
wasn't one of those moments where the Lord came upon me there was no doubt this was quick.
Unknown Speaker 3:33
You do paddleboarding which is my favourite, and you're good at balance. You don't have to fall in the water. That's
David Mckeown 3:38
right. You've got a better skill lots with your balance than a competition here. That's what's going on this morning.
Unknown Speaker 3:48
Good thing I love catching up with people for coffees. Afternoon tea.
Steve Mawston 3:51
Good coffee. Good coffee. Yeah,
David Mckeown 3:53
you're gonna have good coffee. Yeah. So we found out a little bit about you guys a little bit about your ministry. You want to say anything more about your faith journey. How did you come to faith? Maybe a little bit about that?
Unknown Speaker 4:06
Well, I was brought up in Church. My parents were pastors, they actually pioneered what is now sold Church, but next year will be 60 years old. That is my granddad and then my parents. So I had the privilege of growing up in ministry. And I think it wasn't until I moved away to university I studied at Teesside physiotherapy. That's when I really had an encounter with God for myself. And I knew that I knew that I knew that I wanted to make a difference and talk to him naturally wanted to talk to my friends about Jesus. And at a time when you're away from home can be a time when a lot of young people can drift away. And there were moments where it could have been at a crossroads, but it just really made my faith strong.
Nathan Benger 4:48
I wonder if you're actually just jumping off. I wonder if you'd speak into that because I think the stats are that it's around 45% might not have it exactly right, but 45% of people eat Young people who were in Church 18 here in the UK would go to university and wouldn't continue in their faith. So I wonder if you could speak maybe into like just even a Church leader or churches? What can you do to encourage people to do that and help people to do that? Yeah,
Steve Mawston 5:18
it's very real issue because my daughter's at last week, she went and checked out a university. So here's the word see it, it's really important. Think about the Church that they're gonna go to before the university. Right. So she's checking out a great university of north, but we also know that glow churches that so with thinking ahead is, let's help her get into a great Church and attend university in that order, rather than the other way around, because their spiritual. You know, I remember all the folks and talking to me once in Australia, many he really challenged me said, Steve, when it comes to your kids minds in the Bible, you only ever entrusted their minds to a priest not really challenged me. So think about where they're going to be spiritually impacted before, they're going to be intellectually.
Unknown Speaker 6:05
And as a Pastor and leader, I think it's important to get them up and pray for them before they go. So it gives that accountability both in youth and in main Church, that this person is gone. Let's keep them in our thoughts and minds and prayers. Let's let's keep contacting them. And there needs to be that accountability. I now had people doing that for me. But I remember one particular night all my friends were saying, Come on, let's go they wanted to go out clubbing. And and I remember feeling strongly that I wanted to fit in. But I made a decision in that moment, not because I was super strong or spiritual. I just knew that wasn't the way for me, I could see the fruit of their lives. I lived in a house with three other girls that weren't Christians. And I remember staying in that night and just feeling quite sad. But I thought I was missing out and I had the most amazing encounter with God in my bedroom. I remember there were tears. And I literally felt his love fill my heart and filled the room saying, Rach, when you've got this, why would you want to try and fill that with these other things, and it really sustain me? That and some quality friendships great for picking the right friends.
David Mckeown 7:06
Good things are accountable accountability, and making a wise choice. I mean, other ways choice are a bit of a cultural shift. Steve, really think about it, choosing university or choosing Church first, then University. takes a bit of character from parents. Well,
Nathan Benger 7:23
yeah, to think through that. Yeah, definitely.
David Mckeown 7:26
So hey, listen, you've been sharing with our staff with you. So it's been fantastic. We've really appreciated that. Steve, you've shared yesterday morning with is around this idea of being pressed, but pressing on. And I wonder, we could just explore that a little bit, because there's so much good stuff on there. And yeah, I think really helped a lot of the listeners who are leaders to this, because actually, we all face pressures in life. So what was your motivation? Sounds like? What was your motivation? What was your thinking of bringing such a message?
Steve Mawston 8:03
Look, I think for every leader, we know that being in ministry can have pressure. Pressure is something we all face to face, and it actually came out of a conversation. Again, with Robert Ferguson, we're talking about preaching. And he mentioned that that scripture about being hard pressed, but not crushed. Yeah. And I love that. And I think ministry is a place where we feel hard pressed, but thank God not, not crushed. And I and I told that funny story about an experience. I had it at Church and Hillsong Church went in this goes back 15 years when Phil Dooley and Sanger asked me to be involved in the annual animated Bible story, which was the most theologically unsound event in the life of the Church. And it involved me being hoisted up to the roof of the Hillsong convention centre and been dropped and I was dressed in
Unknown Speaker 8:58
depth with love from above.
Steve Mawston 9:02
It was a crazy event. But what they didn't know is that six weeks previously, I just had a little up it begins with the ends in a sec to me. When I was hoisted up, my feet were in stirrups, and I was literally dropped from maybe 100 feet. But unfortunately, when I was dropped, my feet slipped out of the stirrups. And so I was dropped. And it was a very, very painful experience. So I knew what it was to be hard pressed, but not crushed. The point I made was the enemy knows your vulnerabilities. We all have pressure points. And in ministry, you know the enemy went straight after Jesus in Matthew four when he just faster to 20 days and the Bible said he was hungry. What was his first temptation? Turn these stones into bread so the enemy does know your pressure points and you need to make sure you're aware of his devices if you can To survive in ministry, that that was the motivation that
Nathan Benger 10:02
you mentioned as well. Obviously, the whole crowd were laughing because they were seeing your grimacing face at the time. So they did it again.
Steve Mawston 10:10
Yeah, they actually again, and again, just kept going. I'm literally painting through my body. So things
David Mckeown 10:20
are number three, something
Nathan Benger 10:25
where you mentioned, that whole, the enemy knows how to press us and we feel pressure on it. I wonder if you could share, like, some of the things that we can do as leaders and as people who follow Jesus, how do we withstand that pressure? How do we, you know, Utah, I love Utah, because it kind of explains it. We're pressed, but we're pressing on. So how do we keep pressing on?
Steve Mawston 10:48
Yeah. And I talked about the pressure that we face externally. Yeah. And I use the illustration of me diving down for a baseball cap in the Mediterranean, I got halfway down and I couldn't, I couldn't swim any further because the pressure was building in my head in my eyes. So I turned around and swam back to the surface. But then I thought about a submarine. How the heck did they dive down sometimes a mile deep? How can you withstand that pressure? And the answer is really simple is that in a submarine, the pressure on the inside has got to be greater than the pressure on the outside. And Paul says, we have this treasure in earthen vessel that the power may be of God. None of us with we're just earthen vessels. We are clay pots were easily broken with fragile. People can hurt us people can offend us. But we've got to make sure that the pressure within us is of God. And I use that beautiful phrase in, in Greek, it's hyperbola dunamis. That this super abundant power, that dunamis power is hyperbole. It's incredible. It's exceeding, that's not as great, Nathan, we're not anything special. We both know that. But when God's love,
Nathan Benger 12:07
we like we like to think we are on the golf course.
Steve Mawston 12:11
We're pretty happy on the golf course. But the truth is the power of power is not about us, it's of God. And it's it's only when the power of God within us is greater than the pressure around us that we can survive in ministry.
David Mckeown 12:24
And again, I guess that's the key, isn't it? I mean, why don't we just explored a little bit? I mean, maybe for both of you. How do you think then leaders can identify those pressure points, because a lot of people will go through life. They're going through stuff, but they don't really know how to identify? Yeah, I wonder if you could share something about that.
Unknown Speaker 12:44
I spoke this morning about one of the things that can make us more susceptible to pressure is when we lose our passion, and our joy. And we don't react with strength as leaders, as we would have done, had everything been going well, internally, David saying, so some of the signs of a depleted Joy depleted passion is your less generous, you just both in your time and your ability to connect with people and listen to people but also just generous. In life in general, what you have to give you feel like you're less intimate with with each other with and that we've got to watch that with married couples, because you're giving out and giving out, and you just got no energy for each other. You can feel like you when you're speaking to people in Church life, you don't want to go there because it takes too much energy. You feel like people are annoying you and people annoy us. And they can easily wind you up and annoy you. Those are all signs of pressure building. Maybe you would overreact. But it's got to come out somewhere, you would say something you wouldn't normally mean and then immediately, hopefully your spouse can pick up on it or someone that's why we need accountability around us will say hey, you wouldn't normally react in that way. And it's taking time to have those moments where we're thinking what's going well, what's actually not going well. We'll have a date night regularly. But we'll also regularly look at what is our strengths? What are the things that are depleting us right now? What do we need to address what do we need to change? We have the boundaries got a bit blurred?
Nathan Benger 14:23
Just just on that because, you know, like, did you find that awkward to start with when you started doing that together? Was that like
Unknown Speaker 14:32
Steve did? I didn't Yeah, I love having
Nathan Benger 14:35
this is why this is why I'm asking this Okay, So Steve, how did you get past that? Because I think it's really beneficial. But I think people would stop at the This is awkward moment.
Steve Mawston 14:49
Initially, initially what it was, you know, Rachel wanted to write this down and talk about this and I can't think of anything worse off doing that stuff, but I think over the over the 30 year As you've realised what sustains you and, you know, you've got to get through some some of that stuff. So we we have built rhythms, you know, rhythms, that says rhythms are more important than encounters. So every week, we'll have a date night. But it's not just the weekly rhythm of our date night, it's the daily rhythm of when we first get in from work, we debrief, and we'll take a few moments and on a regular basis, we'll go for a walk together. You know, we just had a time of prayer and fasting in our Church. And so we would regularly go out and walk and pray every morning. And it's amazing how it just even though it's difficult, it can feel awkward, it actually breeds and brings intimacy. And that's a very good thing. So.
Nathan Benger 15:42
And you also just just picking up on these pressure points that you're talking about that. And I think when you say things like, Oh, we're less generous, we think we have to be, like, really down. But you use this phrase that's come into the dictionary, and he's used this word meth, meth. Yeah. Which is like, it's not. It's not like it's this deep dive. It's just just failed math.
Unknown Speaker 16:04
Yeah. And the majority of people at the minute, we've got a bit of a fuel crisis, energy crisis in our country, but it's, it's crept into people's lives a little bit. A bit like, I haven't really got the energy. And I think a lot of us can feel that just, yes, not really depressed, and not really, but just, and it's actually really dangerous. Because over a period of time that creeps into a marriage creeps into a team oops, into a leader. And that, then the pressure points are more likely to be obvious because there's no fuel.
Nathan Benger 16:33
Yeah, to give.
David Mckeown 16:34
And you mentioned, actually, if I can just pick up on that, because that's a great grip around this idea that when you're facing times like that, that you do something did you go where you spend a bit of time and you ask yourself, three? I think it's six questions, or nine questions all beginning with who? What, where? It's all right. Yeah, yeah, I'm just remembering that. Tell us a little bit about that. Because I think that's a great practice will help leaders just to then think about those pressure points, but actually, what I need to do with them, so yes, can you help me to share that?
Unknown Speaker 17:07
Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, I've talked about the importance of accountability and being vulnerable. And I shared a teary moment where I felt like I was in a lot of pain with my back, but also my joy had gone, I was just giving out, giving out giving out. So the encounter with God, being vulnerable with close friends and leaders around, that was the first thing. The second thing was very practical, it was call it an hour to empower. So the Holy Spirit can empower us in a service in my bedroom that I described as a teenager, or with friends, but actually I go to a cafe or I'll go to a room, in our, in our Church, and I write down there's actually probably eight questions and they're all W's in it's who three who's, who can I encourage on my team? Who is maybe on the bench that I can bring out at the minute? Who is I can actually practically send a text message, encourage them. And then I asked them what I haven't got my notes in front of me. So I'm trying to ask myself, What am I currently really doing? Well, and what can I improve on? What are the areas that are weak at the minute in my life in our lives, my girls in our in our Church general in the areas that we oversee in our leadership and soul Church? And then I will ask, the my final question is, why am I doing this? Why? Why? We got to ask that question. Why am I called to do this? Yeah. And but jotting down these things of, of the who and then and then the where am I going? Yeah, what where am I going next week? Yes, we've got a vision as a Church and as leaders, but what does that look like for me? Where am I going? And how am I communicating that to? So those are good questions to ask regularly, because otherwise, we can just go from the next thing to the next thing to the next. So click
David Mckeown 18:57
those rhythms. Yes,
Nathan Benger 18:58
it is. Yeah, it's really good. Steve, you also introduced something really interesting, this word Pro and tropic Yeah. I wonder if you explain that because actually yeah, and how does that relate to our leadership? Yeah, just begin to explain that
Steve Mawston 19:17
yeah, the word pride in Tropic it. My brother is educating me about the world of shares. He's been dealing in shares for many years and so he's trying to bring me up to speed and poor guy pray for him. And he sent me an article one day said you need to read is really interesting. And within it, there was a word and it said that these shares are pro entropic I thought, What the heck does that mean? So pro entropic in Tropic comes from entropy, the law of entropy is that everything left to itself tends towards disorder. Look at your teenager's bedroom. It just tends towards disorder. And the share markers for the last year has been in chaos. Everything's been dropping, and most shares don't like it. Their value is lost, but there are some shares that investors look for They are the shares that are pro entropic. In other words, they love the chaos because when everything else is in chaos, they increase in value. So everyone is looking for the pro entropic shares. And it sparked off in my mind that God's power is Pro and tropic, that when the world is in chaos, it's in our weakness that is power is made perfect. And so I love that thought that God's power works when we feel weak. When everything is crashing down around. God's power is probably entropic. Yeah.
David Mckeown 20:32
And it's about having that strength within. That's what you were chatting to our leaders applied. And got me thinking of this question. And I thought things are put in question to ask because a lot of leaders out there going through different things. I guess leaders, face different pressures, pressures and ministry pressures, home pressure, all sorts of things. What do you think? What would be your advice to a leader who may be feeling they can't cope with the pressure? Yeah, I mentioned important question. And we're going to veer that we can take well, let's just do these two things. What, what, what do we need to do with them?
Steve Mawston 21:03
Look, I'll give you an answer first. And you I remember being in one of these moments, and it was about 15 years ago. And, you know, my mental health, for the first and really only time had really started to take a dip to the point where the stress of the workplace was just becoming too much. And I'd been to see a doctor, and they had prescribed me sleeping pills and antidepressants. This was the first time and I remember, you know, I thought, well, I'll go for a run every night. And I would go off, I'd run for an hour and a half. But literally, my mind would not stop. Just I couldn't turn it off at night, I couldn't sleep. And so that what I would say to every leader is you need to talk to somebody, especially as men, we don't do it. But I had the courage to talk and I was really honest to Scott, and then he gave me the right advice. For out where is that and I made some significant changes as a result of that. But it really helped me and it actually set me free. So the first thing is talk to somebody that can help you, not your barber, talk to someone professionally trained, or a Pastor that you trust.
Unknown Speaker 22:12
That's really important. I think we spend a lot of our time coaching pastors, but also pastoring pastors. And it's these moments where I think we get so used to giving out giving out giving out and I shared it an example of that today you give out. And then when someone ministers to you, it's actually quite overwhelming, because you're not used to that. And so as pastors and leaders, it's really important that it doesn't need to be a lonely journey. I think years ago, pastoring seemed to be like you can't let people too close, you know, but those days are gone, we actually need to lead with vulnerability now, because it attracts people and they connect with your weaknesses, more than they are impressed by your strengths. So it's really important that you talk to someone, we actually recommend. We've got a really great psychologist, a trauma therapist, that we refer people to and in counselling, I'd recommend counselling, someone that understands the Church world. The other thing that I would recommend is make sure you're strengthening your strengths. Because I think as pastors and leaders, we think we have to do everything. You know, what did they say master of a jack of all trades, master of none. And that's the biggest way to burnout. You've got to be, look, what's the strength of your heart. I talked today in Ecclesiastes that talks about, keep busy with the joy of your heart, you will not be affected unduly The Bible says by life if you keep losing the joy of your heart, so we often talk to pastors, what's your strength? What's your strength, and then we have to be able to give place for people to fill the gaps where our weaknesses are, so that we can really flourish in our areas of strength.
Nathan Benger 23:50
We did a great thing, actually, at the end, you did a great thing with those. At the end of your session today. staff retreat said this was behind the scenes, but you did you know, you split us You got us into groups, and that was the men together and the women together and into smaller groups and just just asking the question of each other, you know, where's your passion, you know, depleted or where's your enthusiasm gone? And just a just an ability, you know, we were in a group of four just an ability to share openly. You know, like you said, sometimes we're not very good at this as man. And sometimes if those groups mixed, you highlighted it that sometimes the women sit back and don't share as much. And it was just a real powerful moment. And yeah, it's just, you know, just that a that ability to be vulnerable with people you trust. And so it doesn't have to be like, Oh, I've got the big issue. It could be I've just recognised a pressure point. Or I've just my passions waning. Let me chat to someone.
David Mckeown 24:54
Yes, it's all about wedding kill. Things are really, really at a level where you need that type of help. but could be if you're working that stuff through as you go. And that's the thing that sustains us. Well, it's having an ongoing accountability and vulnerability with each other.
Unknown Speaker 25:10
takes great courage. It takes a strong leader to admit vulnerability. Yeah, yeah.
Steve Mawston 25:16
Just before we move on from that we both have mentors, who we catch up with regularly, sometimes Dr. Very short, in Australia, who's my master supervisor. And I'll regularly just talked to him and he he'll check in and he prays for us every day, because we all need someone. And somewhere that we can go to just on a regular basis, not just when crisis hits. It's an ongoing rhythm that we have.
Unknown Speaker 25:37
We've got to keep growing and keep learning and keep being challenged.
David Mckeown 25:41
So you guys, you're involved in lots of different things, leadership wise, coaching, writing, we want to pick up on on the writing in a moment. So I think I had a question don't hear reason what gets you out of bed in the morning, they we've heard a little bit about the Church stuff and all that sort of thing it could down to be the Steve kick show, David. That's the real answer.
Unknown Speaker 26:10
I've had to learn the discipline of getting
David Mckeown 26:13
started, think like, you know, what's the thing? I mean, obviously, you showed some of your things that really grip you. But what else grips you you know, as you're, as you're working with people and writing books, you're writing for a reason. So let's explore that.
Unknown Speaker 26:25
Yes. What gets me out of the bed in the morning is to help people help women especially but people in general, find what their passion is, or their calling is, and see it fulfilled. All of the time. I'm talking about calling passion dreams, I think were put on this earth for so yes, were to be the hands and feet of Jesus. But since Terranea says that the glory of God is a man or woman fully alive, we can actually only be fully alive I believe, when we're fulfilling purpose. And we're shaped in a specific way. And I used to try and be like Steve, and my preaching and communication and teaching were completely different. But when I relaxed into I've just got to love people and empower them. And so that's what gets me out of bed in the morning is the thought that I want to help someone today see their dreams fulfilled. Yeah, yeah,
Nathan Benger 27:16
I know. So they've mentioned you're writing a second book? Yeah. What what
Unknown Speaker 27:21
I'm doing, right. Now to write your story, right.
Nathan Benger 27:25
Yeah. Well, your book. We'll get onto that in a bit. But yeah, just share a little bit more about the book. Maybe what what is the reason for writing it as well?
Unknown Speaker 27:39
Yeah, so it's the second book, the first book was sold time is when your soul needs a holiday. And it was written during during lockdown with my daughter, Melody. And we were talking about when your soul is depleted when your soul needs to find love when your soul needs encouragement, when you've just met, we talked about that, you know, we just flat. And so there's been some great feedback from that as a devotional, this one is called Finding Your voice, or find your voice. And it's more about I started running, running a course for women called Find Your Voice. Just last year, and so by the end of last year, 60 plus women, I kept it small each group because I wanted to have the connection. 60 plus women have grown in confidence in finding their voice. Finding Your voice is a combination of who you are, finding who you are, and what you're called to do. And I think women, young people, especially I love speaking with young people, there were some young people on the course, they it takes them a while to grasp hold off, because there's so many things that they could do. What is the thing that really makes them tick? What were they designed for, but then also changing seasons of life? women that are empty nesters, or when you move locations, like Steve and I have a few times transition, many of us are in transition, and it looks different. What does the outworking of finding your voice look like in a new season? So it's yeah, it's about finding your voice.
David Mckeown 29:05
So it's not a singing book. It's not.
Unknown Speaker 29:07
Although I used to lead worship many years ago. Yeah. And I admire people like Whitney Houston and but it's very sad. She had an amazing voice. But she my question would be when I watched her documentary, did she actually find her voice? And then she died at 48. Her young daughter 22. Sadly, in the similar way, she was always she would regularly say when I'm watching the documentary, can I be me? Can I be me? And I think this can be a battle often for women is when we're seen as nurturers and we've got so many hats and so many roles and we're giving out and giving up what is what to actually I want to give out we forget to invest within.
David Mckeown 29:49
So what do you think is the problem you're trying to solve? Then? You know, as you think of your book, you're trying to encourage people to find their voice find who they are their gifts to tell lens dreams? What else are you trying to solve? Because obviously, you've written it for a reason. What else,
Unknown Speaker 30:07
we're also trying to encourage women to be that for each other. So within the course, I've kept it small kept it at 15. I'm hearing stories all the time of women that advocating for each other, Oh, can you come and speak at this? Or I've got this interview coming up, can you pray for me, or there's one girl that used to work in the corporate world, and she said her role was making rich people richer. And when she did find your voice, she recognised that she had a teaching gift from a little girl that she actually needed to stare up and she's doing teacher training. And she's one of the leaders in our youth, and leads, leads one of my one of my daughters, and everybody says, she's so much happier, so much fulfilled, she's got a joy she just had countenance is different, because she's in a sweet spot.
David Mckeown 30:53
That's a great word.
Unknown Speaker 30:56
If I can help women, yes, find their voice. But there's something about when you're in a sweet spot, you feel fulfilled, you're gonna have a better marriage, you're gonna have better relationships, you're gonna keep healthier. So your sweet spot is a combination of who you are combination rather, of your natural ability, your spiritual gifts, and the opportunity to outwork them. So sometimes we need God to open doors, but sometimes we can open doors for each other. And so that's what I talked about.
Nathan Benger 31:26
It's really good. Yeah. Yeah. When you share that this morning, that was one of the key things that, you know, I kind of took away is, and also the ability to help others find their sweet spot, as well. Yeah, I think is a big thing. So in terms of the book, like, if you were to give us here's a key idea that I'd love people to take away from this book, if you would say, you know, what, this is the, this is like, this is the one you know, like, whoever reads this, this is the thing I want you to take away, what would that
Unknown Speaker 31:59
be, it would be the confidence to, to articulate who you are and what you're good at the strength, what you bring to the table, and then the courage to outwork it.
David Mckeown 32:12
I like that it's good. And thinking of this idea of you talked about, like, people within the Church setting finding their sweet spot, where sometimes they're not finding that's an issue for them. Do you think it's a broader issue? Do you think it's like within society, within culture, you think leaders are struggling? On that topic as well?
Unknown Speaker 32:33
Yeah, look, I think in in Church generally, and life in general, but in Church, we can, we can get busy looking after people. And that's important. Regardless of strength to do that, we can go from the next event to the next thing, and we keep going and going. And even in the corporate world, they're all about, you know, success. And on the journey of getting to what we want to do in Church or in the corporate world, we can sometimes miss the people along the way that are not fulfilling their potential. And so Maxwell says that you just you just talked about it, Nathan, a successful person finds their sweet spot, but a successful leader helps other people find their sweet spot. And I think, yeah, whether it's a Church or not, as a leader, if you can notice, when someone is not passion fueled, they're not going to be given any outcomes if they're not in their sweet spot. And so I think we have a responsibility as pastors and leaders, just to really help people and not just think we need you to fill gaps. Yes, there's a certain amount of that. But it's if we can really get you in your zone. It's gonna be
David Mckeown 33:47
through my mind, as you're sharing there is like, there could be people who are listening or leaders, and actually they're doing a role doing the job. But really, the question we're asking is, are they really in their sweet spot? And if they're not, I guess what does that have? To do? Yeah, and how can we help them get into the right, so rather than just going to class, doing something, and actually there? Because it brings that energy and life does not realise? Yeah.
Nathan Benger 34:12
Well, before we get to our quickfire questions, I actually want to add an extra question. Because we're behind the scenes and now be honest, the staff and staff retreat and I know lots of people and leaders will be listening to this who might be might prepare for a staff retreat or staff away day or something in the future. I just wondered if there was anything in like your preparation for coming here that you did differently to like, I'm preparing to, you know, message on a Sunday or even to talk to, you know, the staff on a, you know, like every week or whatever, I just wondered if you'd, you know, dive into that or if it looks the same. Just what did you do? Really? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 34:55
well, for me, I think the importance of a staff retreat is building relationship and having those may against vulnerable moments. But for us, for me, definitely what I bring, I feel like people need a shot in the arm, they need a booster. They need an immunisation. They need, they need encouragement. They need tools. So it's not so much. I don't think the drawing board staff they're the, you know, the work as much. It's more than inspiring. Yeah. And the motivating, and the encouragement. And you guys have done that brilliantly.
Steve Mawston 35:28
Yeah. And you know, stuff in churches work so hard. And to come here to this beautiful venue, which passes Paul and Jeanne have, you know, what is it in, and it has been an absolute joy because it's the perfect setting. It's in a nice area. Balance between sessions and relaxing and having fun and having an epic quiz, trying to school you on the pool table. It's a hot tub. So be intentional place value on your staff really think it through and make sure that they walk away, having had some fun, but also some great input. I think those are the keys to a great staff retreat.
David Mckeown 36:09
Hey, well, thanks. Thanks for sharing those. We do have some quickfire questions. The reason they're quickfire is because you got to answer them quite quickly. Okay, so
Nathan Benger 36:17
we have one guest, we did quickfire questions, and it lasted longer than the other. If that was you, we loved it. Yeah, we
David Mckeown 36:28
were not gonna say who you were. Okay. So here they are. Okay, here we go. Here we go. So what are you most excited about and challenge about at the moment,
Unknown Speaker 36:39
when you book it would be but I'm both excited and challenged because it's actually out of my comfort zone. When people come mid April,
David Mckeown 36:46
then April 23.
Steve Mawston 36:49
Things I'm really excited about is seen Rachel and sweetspot. I believe as a husband, the first gift that I've got to steward is my wife. And so seeing her stepping into this new zone, she's away the next three weekends in different cities around the place of seeing her thrive and come alive is something I am incredibly excited my greatest
Unknown Speaker 37:08
cheerleader literally I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing.
David Mckeown 37:11
When you are away then you and the golf course is not why you're cheering her on.
Steve Mawston 37:19
It's not it's true
Unknown Speaker 37:24
to be looking after the kids, but
Nathan Benger 37:29
they're the days give us your top two book recommendations and a quick why. So
Steve Mawston 37:35
okay, one off the top. My head is Rabbi Jonathan Saxon on leadership. So obviously it's a Jewish rabbi, but give some incredible insights from the pentatonic as first five books of the Bible on leadership so it's a fascinating read currently reading watchmen nice. It was Dan. It's a really old one. Yeah, but again, just brilliant. Don't try and do this out of your own strength. It's who you are in Christ. The Madison great
Unknown Speaker 37:59
15 laws of growth by John Maxwell had a big impact on my life. And it's something I dip into every now and again. Keep growing. Atlas of the heart by Brene Brown reading at the minute. I love I love her books. points of vulnerability. Awesome. Good book recommendations.
David Mckeown 38:15
So hey, your favourite meal of choice.
Steve Mawston 38:19
Oh, that's Thai. Thai. It would be a spicy chicken.
Nathan Benger 38:25
You both the same? Yeah, love.
Unknown Speaker 38:27
Yeah. We do like Indian Yeah, India. So
Nathan Benger 38:32
you don't I guess you don't have the conversation as much as we have in what do you want to eat? And you when you can? And you say no, you choose to choose because
David Mckeown 38:44
that lasts forever.
Steve Mawston 38:45
The problem is Rachel will always want whatever I want. But I like spicy. She likes miles. So that's where the negotiation is.
Unknown Speaker 38:53
You prefer me often don't use those kinds of videos you can ever be of my
Nathan Benger 38:59
good. Final, final, final quickfire question. And I know you mentioned some of the hobbies that you did earlier. But what would be something maybe that you've not mentioned or you want to highlight again, that helps you to stay fresh in ministry in life?
Unknown Speaker 39:14
Well, Monday we went to the beach. We wrapped up we got a coffee and a cream cake. And we walked
Nathan Benger 39:20
along the beach. You have a special name for Monday's don't Yeah, it's our Mauston
Unknown Speaker 39:22
Monday. Hashtag most of Monday. Yeah, we always go out because when you stay home, there's always a job that needs doing. So yeah, we love we love the beach, whether it's in England or in Australia, very different temperatures. But
Steve Mawston 39:34
yeah, we love travel. We love getting out. One of the things we did a few years ago is we went to Oslo for the day in Norway. So we got a cheap flight. It cost us 999 Out 99 back and we went sledging in Norway. So I'd encourage you get out of your environment. Get out see some of the amazing places in the world and do something different.
David Mckeown 39:54
Like hey, well, it's been great to have you guys were there Steve and Rachel Marston and the church explained podcast you We're almost wrapped. We are.
Nathan Benger 40:01
What? Like, what's the best way for people to connect with you guys?
Steve Mawston 40:07
Through our website, Steven rachel.co.uk or Instagrams? Yeah, however, or at Sol Church. Yeah, come and visit us at our Church. It's amazing. Yeah. Awesome.
Nathan Benger 40:17
Well, it's been so good to be together on the church explained podcast again, a big thank you to Steve and Rachel. And again, wherever you're consuming this content, like review, subscribe, follow if you're on Spotify. That's a shout someone who's mentioned what do I do on Spotify? Well, you can follow along with the podcast on there. And yeah, we have loads of free resources that are available for you. I conduct Church forward slash open. They're free and available for you to use in your churches as you please but it's been great to be together on the church explained podcast and we will see you next time as we gather together
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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