CEP SEASON THREE EP: 21 - WITH GUEST PETR BUZYAN
By Dave Mckeown and Nathan Benger
Welcome to part two of our conversation with Petr Buzyan, campus pastor at Elevation Church in Orlando, Florida. Petr shares the challenges of starting a new church and the internal fears and insecurities that come with it. He emphasises the importance of focusing on what is in your hand and maximizing it rather than constantly fantasising about what you don't have.
We also discuss the value of equipping the church members for the work of the ministry and prioritising people over systems and structures. Lastly, we talk about the importance of reminding ourselves that God has chosen us and has equipped us with what we need for the present moment.
SHOW NOTES
FULL TRANSCRIPT
David Mckeown 0:00
Hey, welcome to the church explained podcast conversations grew your leadership and build your Church. Come on Well, well, listen, well, why don't you share one or two? Charlotte? What? What are your highs? What's the highlights there? Of, of what God's doing? And? And what some of the challenges?
Petr Buzyan 0:24
Yeah, there's so many challenges. A lot of them sometimes have nothing to do with the location itself or the Church itself. It's a lot of internal things day. But yeah, I think I think let me speak to the highs I think the high for me, for Jess and I, my wife, getting a chance to start something and getting the privilege and honour and the trust by our leadership to start something. Yeah, it's been one of the greatest privileges of life it's it's shaped our marriage, it's it's challenges to be better. I've grown personally in my relationship, walk with God, because there was a lot of faith you need. There's days you wake up, if you're a Pastor, leader, right now listening, or an entrepreneur, a business leader, leading something and being responsible for the demand naturally develops you. So the natural demand of starting something, and the responsibility develops you, or it should, it's either going to develop you or it's going to crush you. And and so I just and I'd have just this opportunity with people around us who shape us challenges encourages. So there's a high end just in a sense to have that opportunity to grow. Because something like this allows you to grow as individuals but also in your marriage, there's a lot of things you have to create spaces and boundaries and conversations and, and investments into one another in order for you to grow healthy, and for this Church to be healthy. And we don't always do it. Well, some days, we're like, we could be a lot better, but because of the demand, that's that's causing us to have those conversations. I think a high though if I were to specifically speak to the location is 12. Living Room and and July 23 2019, to seeing over 2500 people make a decision to follow Jesus as a couple of weeks ago, is incredible. You know, that's a story of God and God's faithfulness only no human. No system can do that. It's only God 12 people and seeing over 2500 people make a decision Three years later, is unreal. And I can't believe it. And this is this is all the challenges of like you said, everyone's been through it seven weeks in, we launched the location. And seven weeks after that COVID hits and everyone is shifting online. I'm like, this thing is shutting down. We're never this is over. And God's like, let me show you how I build my Church. And so, you know, I think that's the highest that I've seen God build his Church no matter what challenge. Yeah. And no matter what human fear, or thought you may have about it God's like, I love the Church more than you do.
David Mckeown 2:37
Yeah, hey, let me just let me just draw it a couple of things. I think one, one of the things I want to try and drive there is this idea of when people, you know, leadership when they see something in us, and they call that out of us, actually, there's something in that, isn't it that gives us confidence. And, and I think I mentioned that, because, you know, that could be leadership or listening, maybe they're thinking, hey, we want to get somebody on staff, or we want to invite somebody in, you know, just by the fact that of leader seeing somebody can really put confidence in them to do the role that God called them to do. And I guess that's a little bit what you're describing, you know, those, the staff there swear of challenging you, and good old sweb style with his own version of the story. But you know something about that when somebody challenges you, then it causes you to either step up or step away, doesn't really run. But it gives us confidence that somebody sees something in us that actually they're trying to draw it. And maybe there's something even leaders listening just to encourage them listen, you know, why don't you have a what we often call an AC new conversation, you know, what is it you send somebody, draw out of them, and let them see that actually, that you've got confidence in them to the leader, service leader, department, leader, ministry, whatever it may be even leader campus? There's something about that as well. The other thing I do want to dive into is if you're okay, that how do you think just about sharing some of those internal challenges? Maybe some of the listeners, and absolutely as comfortable as you are, do you want? I mean, what are some of the things you fears that maybe other leaders are facing that you can speak into?
Petr Buzyan 4:21
I think, you know, there's there's so many different layers to this, I think part of me still still thinks, hey, do I really belong here? I never wanted to be a Pastor. It's not been a dream of mine. You know, I feel young, you know, I still looking younger. Yes, there you go. see, that's exactly how I feel. It's like people say it. And and, you know, I think of so many successful people and leaders and people who are in their faith and seasons ahead of me. And, and so there's just that insecurity of I'm too young, I don't have enough X perience and wisdom to come alongside and Pastor people my title is a Pastor and pastoring this community, this this, this, this campus that we have in Orlando, but how can I Pastor some people that I've never been, you know, I got married, so I was married when we started this campus to help people, but I didn't have kids, so I'm not gonna Pastor parents. I don't have kids, you know, and then I don't haven't been successful. I've been a Pastor before they're getting a brand new Pastor, they're getting like this rookie of a Pastor who hasn't done anything before a newbie, and why are they going to commit to me? You know, I know, I know, people are trusting their finances and tithing and bringing 10% back to God, I know it's in God, but they're looking at me and the establishment, or are they going to trust me? You know, my hair is a certain way I dress a certain way. I don't look newer, you know, nowhere near what they look like or whatever, maybe, you know, you start to think all these different things. Yeah. And so I think that's at the core, sometimes that can can stifle someone, but whether it's an age, right, or it's an experience, yeah, whatever, maybe. Or you can flip and say, Well, I'm too old. You know, I'm see way seasons ahead. And, you know, I feel like I've got some knowledge and wisdom. But this is a younger demographic, or they're going to be in a young, you know, you can you could flip it, and it could be something else or someone, but for me, is that I think part of another part of it is kind of really do this for the long haul. Yeah, you know, I have no experience have not done this before. She and I last and I think when you look around and see different leaders and different people, and you see certain things happening in the Church world and people falling and making mistake, you have that side of it's I'm and I want to be able to do this for the long haul. can I do for the long haul? Yeah. Can you help me finish this? Well, can I do this? Well, I think a lot of it sometimes as well as just seeing naturally, I think we all do it just comparison, you see other people who preach, you see other people who teach other people who lead and you feel like they just do a better job at it. Yeah. And they just sound better. They just weren't that better out there. They got this, they got that and you start to talk yourself out of what you bring. Because it's hard to see ourselves. We don't have eyes to see ourselves, right? You and I have eyes to see other people. I can look at a mirror that the mirror only reflects what you think not actually actually what you see, I think we oftentimes think we see what we see. But we actually are seeing this version that we really think, Oh, I think it's like, you know, I look at myself and I was like, Man, how your hair looks great. And I'm like, I actually thought this morning look terrible. How's it what person sees my hair looking great. I saw as it doesn't look great. Yeah. And I think challenges. Those challenges naturally come in leadership is I don't have what it takes. I'm too young. I'm not smart enough. I haven't done this long enough. I don't have the resources, I don't have the permanent facility. I don't have the leaders, you know, whatever it may be, we'll find ourselves and tell ourselves we're not good enough. And I think for me a bigger one. And a challenge. And I think God is teaching me Hey, up, picked you have chose you. And then this is what I tell myself when I'm in my position a lot of time a lot of times is I didn't ask for this. To God, God asked to be a Pastor. This wasn't like a dream of mine and put it on the list. I resisted this I resisted being a Pastor I resisted leading at this capacity. Somehow, some way I've said yes. Because internally I felt this call. And so God I'm here. And I told him, there are 14 other people that could be better than me leading this campus. But yet they chose me. If they chose me, that means you must have chosen me there must be something you put inside me. That could bring people closer to you. And I think if you asked me the desire, what's my favourite thing about what I get to do is I tell is share, I get to share with people. The things that God has done the things that Jesus has done in my life to change it. And I don't necessarily have this like, you know, been to jail for 17 years, and God saved me. That's not my story. But what I do have is that I felt lonely, isolated, and it looked like I had everything. But I felt like nothing. And God saved me. He found me there. And he's, he's divinely shaped and invested and reactivated or or reignited what was already inside of me. And it's this passion to love God. And I think one thing I love to talk most about is who Jesus is and the Gospel story. So if I get a chance with a few minutes with people, you're probably in a sense, a sense of passion for God's Church, and who God is. And so I think that's my favourite thing is to spend time talking with people meeting him for coffee, meeting him in the lobby, telling him I want to encourage people I want him to walk away feeling you know what God's best is in front of me. God's future is bright for my life. Yes, there's some challenges I'm facing. But if I've got God inside me, I've got everything. Yeah. And if if I can wake up and have breath in my lungs and an ability to write and see the future and more of a imagination sense, why not go for
David Mckeown 9:56
like not unlike that just overcoming those I guess imposter syndrome sort of stuff isn't really and the challenges we face, just by reminding ourselves actually that God has chosen us. That's the big thing. And the patient is Yeah, I
Petr Buzyan 10:10
think David's Yeah, yeah, I think David's what's in your hand? Yeah. Moses had a stat. Yeah. And I know, we've all heard that. But what's in your hand? And I think so often, we think we need to have something in our hand. Yeah, 10 years from now, if I get the experience, 10 years from now, I'm gonna have something better in my hand, and we don't maximise what we have in it today. And you know, if what's in my hand are just a few stones in a sling. Not an armour, not a not a sword. Saul offered David his shield and a sword, his armour. Yeah, he got the, if you will, the building. He got the perfect microphone and sound system. He got the perfect stage. And he realised that God didn't train him with that in hand. Yeah. And so if you're going to face Goliath, you can't face Goliath with something you never trained with. So who you are today is what God's trained you for. And the moment. So when I launched this campus, God gave me everything I needed to lead and start that camp. For them my background. Yeah. For that moment. Yeah. So if it was asleep, stone, that's what I'm using. That's the Insight now. So David puts this armour on, right? And he has the sword he has no, he feels it. And it's like, this is just not me. Yeah, I killed him with the bear, a bear and a lion with a sling and a stone. So I'm gonna face Goliath with what God has trained me and equip me with for the season for that moment. Yeah. And I think as leaders, I fall victim to, if I had this, if I have that, if I had that, and I'm looking at a 30 year old Church, a 40 year old Church, even if it's a 10 year old Church, and I'm a one year old, they have what they have, because they've been in ministry for 10 years, and then serve God's people for 10 years. I can't take that what I don't have or have organically acquired, whether it's spiritually or in my faith, or even systems or structures, or people that God sent to be able to build a Church like that. And so we spend so much time fantasising and dreaming of that without seeing what's in my hand, what has God equipped me with today? And I have to remind myself that daily, what's in my hand today, Peter, and if what's in my head today, is just a sling and a stone. Well, that means I have exactly what I need to face what God is what God has got in front of me, even if the enemy is doing something to distract me. It's like, no, I got it in my hair, I could do it.
David Mckeown 12:25
So true. And I think there's something in that. And, you know, when we think about people and leaders, often we're all thinking about the future, you know, when I'm like this, or when this happens, or when my Church is like this. But there's something about just focusing on the present, what have you got now? And what can you do with what you have now? You know, that's the thing that God can take and use at this time. Hey, let me just throw on another question here, just a bite Elevation Church, other you're serving there, we love what you guys are doing. But what's the one thing about Elevation Church that really matters that people don't ask about? That's a phenomenal question, Dave.
Petr Buzyan 13:06
What really matters that people don't ask about? I would say that people of the Church I think so often, you know, the version of Elevation Church people see today is this online ministry all over the world, the buildings, the songs, the worship team, Pastor Steven, who he is today, and how he communicates and how God uses him such a brilliant way. And there's a lot of value in that I understand. Absolutely. I know that I'm a I'm a byproduct of that kind of faith, I get to sit. He's my leader, my my, my boss, my Pastor, I can just sit under his teaching and Holly Pastor Holly's teaching. But I think so often people come in, and they want to know the systems and the structures and the things, the bells and whistles. But those things only happen. And I think we see in the favour of God is on it. Because of the people at the Church. Yeah. And so I think, I think oftentimes, we can miss and forget, I think another question that I would say is that people when they think about elevation churches, how is Elevation Church? Or who is Elevation Church? And why is it the way it is today? What shaped it? And I could go back and say, Well, Pastor, whenever it was just a few families, just core families when he was launching the Church and the type of faith and belief they had. The time that he fasted 40 days, he wanted to fast for a few days ended up doing 40 days and 40 without food and without food and just water. And you're like, Well, you know, you hear and see his preaching today. And his faith and his audacity and how God is using this ministry all over the globe, but it really starts and here's the thing. I in the private he's still the same person that he was 70 years ago in terms of fame. A desire, willingness, discipline, hunger, and he's going to share his challenges and all this. So when we see Elevation Church and what it is today, it's it's easy to get wrapped up in the hype of Elevation Church. And I think that happens naturally. Yeah, people got wrapped up in the hype of Jesus miracles. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, when the question is that you asked so brilliantly is what what question Does this No one asked about Elevation Church when they come visit is, hey, what are who are the people of Elevation Church? Sure. Because I think the favour of God on this ministry stems, I think, from the faith of the original core families and Pastor Steven Holly, but I think it's stewarded by the people of our Church and Pastor Steven has said that over and over again, from his pulpit, as people of Elevation Church that will meet allow God to dwell and minister to the cities and communities we're in Yeah,
David Mckeown 15:54
no great, great answer and great insight there as well. And hopefully, I'll help leaders as they're in their own churches or settings, just to remember actually, yeah, it is about the people. It's not about the systems or structures, or all those things that are necessary. But actually, it's really about people isn't that we need to keep that our focus. You know, we can think about all the different things, that's gone. Well, but But actually, the reason they're gone well is because of the people who are there helping those things go well, and sometimes we forget about that. The people who put in the hard graft, the hard work, who are running the things doing the things, you know, we may think as well, we come up with the idea, but rarely, actually takes more than an idea to really be fruitful. He needs people to work and collaborate together to make the thing happen. I agree.
Petr Buzyan 16:40
I think Dave, if I could add to that when people is, I think as leaders and as pastors, I think I've fallen victim to this launching this campus. Yeah. Is. And this is there's they're needed. So I'm gonna say they're needed. So if you're a Pastor listening right now, and you're launching innovation, you've got I gotta I gotta establish a culture and I need systems and and these structures and volunteers and all the things that help steward God's Church. But I think in the midst of that you can prioritise those things over God's people. And what I mean by that. So I said, it's about the people is that the people that are coming to Church, the Bible says that we're called to equip the saints to do the work of the ministry. And I think I've missed it at times where I have led people and for good things, and the systems and the structures because it's about the mission, our mission, so that people fall for about to be raised to life in Christ, and our vision statement as a Church to see what God can do through you. And they're good things, and they're godly things. But what I'm missing that moment is I forget to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. And what that means is, how do I Pastor the people? How do I shape them and make them fall in love and show them my life, not a perfect life, but a life that shows both the vulnerability and the challenges, but also the the desire to pursue God, show them how to pursue God and fall in love with Jesus, and they're going to serve God's Church forever. Show them a system and structure and they're gonna rise and fall on your system and structure that's imperfect. And so I think as cliche as that sounds is our job as pastors and leaders, is to help people see Jesus and fall in love with God and fall in love with his Church, and fall in love with the disciplines of pursuing God and desire who God is every single day. And when you can do that, and that's a not an overnight a week, a system, a structure a course, that's a lifestyle, bring him into your life, show them how much you love God, but also show them how you make mistakes, and how God corrects you and convicts you. And let them see how to outwork a Bible based Jesus loving people loving Church, and they're going to serve the Church and the vision for as long as they have that in front of them. And that's what the job is pastoring your people, because people are coming in, they don't know Jesus, or they've been in Church for 30 years and picked up some habits that maybe aren't biblical. Keep pointing back to God and keep pointing back to God. And I haven't always done that. Well, God's been convicted me this past year help people see Jesus and not in the cliche way, given in a practical way. What does that practical look like on Monday? What does that practically look like on a Tuesday on a date night? Show them that. And it's not just through social media and your highlights, it's inviting them into your home, it's getting a coffee. Remember, spend time with the people that you like, give you everything that you preach to them and speak to
David Mckeown 19:13
them? Very good. Very good. I mean, it's, as you said, about bringing people into your life. That's the journey, isn't it? That's the privilege as well, the privilege and the challenge if we're honest, because sometimes we want the space, but actually, that's a privilege on the challenge alongside their Hey, thinking about those closest to you then maybe a bit of a challenge question, three answer. But what did they say about you? What do they say about your leadership gift?
Petr Buzyan 19:44
Yeah, you know, I think I would hope they would say that because I don't always get it right, Dave, I'll be honest with you. I just said that don't always get it right. But I would hope they would say is that someone is authentic in every moment? Yeah, that's something I bought I always wanted to be used in every conversation, no matter the opportunity, no matter the moment, no matter the place. I think authenticity breeds anointing. Yeah. And I want to be anointed. Because if I'm not, then what I say is really just me saying it. So God, if you called me this, please allow me that your anointing flows in me and through me, so that people can hear your words, not just some kind of cute sticky statement or good leadership. So whether it's a three minute conversation with the first time guests or someone very important in the city, I want them to see someone who's authentic, who's real in the moment, who's not looking over the shoulder and trying to have another conversation with someone else. Yeah, but really create a rhythm and a pattern, a habit in my life that the most important conversation is the one in front of me. And I think when I can stay in that place, then I can stay in that childlike faith. Because I believe kids are their most authentic self. And then as you get older, you tell
David Mckeown 21:00
you, something happens. Yeah.
Petr Buzyan 21:04
Like if I could say, yeah, as close as I can to this, this, this authentic person who loves God, and every season and every situation don't always do well. But if I can be there, Dave, I think I can minister and stay healthy and have wind for for the long run long haul. It's the wrong faith and ministry. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I'd hoped they're like, authentic and every moment.
David Mckeown 21:27
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll soon find out. Well, my point of pull out there and see what they really say. And then we're allowed to, you know,
Petr Buzyan 21:36
do it because I'd like to know.
David Mckeown 21:39
Hey, listen, it's been just great to have you on the show. I've got a few quickfire questions. Before we wrap up today. Is that alright? Love the quickfire. So you're gonna answer them quickly. So we've got a few here in front of me. We'll see which ones we will go for which ones will leave out so you just got to be ready. But it's brilliant to have you on the show. Are you ready? So what's your favourite podcast? And why do you like it?
Petr Buzyan 22:02
I've loved leadership lean in with Chad Veatch. I just Yeah. And on the practical side of it, he does, you know, you kind of get that Chad Veatch realness, but he's also got this passion for developing and building leaders and knowing how that builds God's Church
David Mckeown 22:16
we're in and what's your two books you'd recommend and why?
Petr Buzyan 22:22
So I've read a couple books that just challenged me encouraged me, Craig Groeschel wrote a book I read a few years ago called it Yeah, it's all premise is how churches can get it and keep it. I think this idea of not chasing systems or structure, there's something spiritual and something internally that as a Church, if you can find it. Yeah, what God's calling you to do and what you can keep it and you can build on it. So I just felt challenged in that. And then other book was how to be like Walt by Pat Williams, as well. Yeah, of course, I'm in Orlando and Disney. So yeah, I just love seeing how a story how a dream can become a reality. Yeah, if you if you believe it, serve it, work it and sustain it. And his life just inspired me to believe and dream big for Allah that God gives. If we serve a God is so big why wouldn't have big dreams? Yeah, why
David Mckeown 23:17
not? Why not? And your favourite food and why?
Petr Buzyan 23:21
So it's called pili. Meanie. It's a Ukrainian, Ukrainian Slavic staple. It's like ravioli. But you know, love for those who love you know, my Italians out there and people who love ravioli. But believe me, it takes the cake there better. Yeah. Better ravioli? I can't love ravioli.
David Mckeown 23:41
Yeah, it's yeah, I've eaten it. I actually I've heard it. I've heard it before. So there you go. Yeah, I enjoyed it. That was nice, actually. And we went to Poland last year. And we were visiting some ladies from Ukraine who were staying in the Church and pull it up, and they couldn't deal with all the different Ukrainian foods. And that was one of them. But I didn't know what it was called. But I added and enjoyed that. Yeah, so they now know when it's gone. Okay, so on your favourite destination wave you can go to somewhere in the world. Where would you go?
Petr Buzyan 24:18
100% You're my wife and I both saying we want to go back. Well, I was born there. I haven't been back since I was born. My wife's never been so to go to Europe and see some of some kind of the history Church history and just meet some people and friends that I have there. Hopefully see you Dave.
David Mckeown 24:35
Yeah, you're welcome to come and see me. I can't promise the sunshine. But I can't promise. Yeah, give them a good time. And that if you could have one superpower, what would that be?
Petr Buzyan 24:48
They you know what? Oh, man. I love that question. Because it's tough. It's tough. It's so tough to answer that question. Truthfully, I Honson wrestling. I'm wrestling between between Keep teleportation I like not because I don't like to travel. It's not it's just the demand and how quick I could go to places to places to places. And also the ability and the ability to recollect everything. So endless knowledge
David Mckeown 25:15
night night is that
Petr Buzyan 25:17
I didn't want to be cliche and say wisdom is
David Mckeown 25:21
the ability to be like to have knowledge and recollect it. But it's not. It's not a superpower, or would that just be like, would your brand be fried? That's what I'm thinking. You know, what I was
Petr Buzyan 25:32
wondering is that is it too? Is it too much of a trigger thing to say, AI capabilities? You know, what people on this podcast be like, Man, there's been a lot of Hayes's he says that,
David Mckeown 25:42
all right, we like aI here. So no problem with that whatsoever. Just the ability to recollect
Petr Buzyan 25:48
and be able to communicate it and different. It'd be it'd be something
David Mckeown 25:52
that wouldn't be good. Hey, listen, it has been brilliant to have you on the show. And thanks for being with, hey, if people want to connect with you, or find out more about you, where can they find you?
Petr Buzyan 26:02
I think the simplest way and I'll give one place is my my Instagram, I think it goes to their direct message me. My handles is p and then my last name is Bucha and bu Z Wi Fi right there.
David Mckeown 26:17
And before you go then and the pronounciation. And the spelling of your name is different. The reason I'm saying this is because I know when I put the script out there or the stuff either but the podcast, people will be thinking they've misspelt that so can you please explain how your name is spelt? And why is it spelled that way? So people don't come to me and say, Hey, Dave, what's happened to Duran? Yeah, what have you
Petr Buzyan 26:42
what's happening? Are you losing it? It's spelled P E T are you say, Peter? Technically, you could say, well, technically, it's said its pattern or pure aesthetic, which is that you'd say? A pure thin, pure thin. Yeah, but I go by Peter and it's spelled P ter. And the reason it's spelt PTR even when I moved to the US is that the embassy translated not named to name but letter for letter and my name is for letters and a Ukrainian language. So
David Mckeown 27:13
we've we've said that we build that. We've nailed it. We're alright. Hey, listen, great to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us today on thanks to all our listeners who've been listening to this, watching us. Wherever you're watching this from, we just want to say to people, thanks for connecting into the podcast, head on to the website, you can find out more resources IKON dot Church forward slash Auckland, lots of free resources there for Church leaders for people to dip into. So if you want to find out more about what we're doing is well head on over to the website, but you can find us and subscribe to us and all the major platforms. So thanks for being with us. And the church explained podcast
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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